# At The Demonstartion Against The NRA.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [April 20, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805 "2018-04-20T18:27:54Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Mister\_Mills](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Mills)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/1 "2018-04-20T18:27:54Z")
I was on 5th Ave N, and the demonstrators from Saint Petersburg High School happened by. They were chanting, “Hey, hey, ho, ho–The NRA has got to go!”, as they walked down the sidewalk.
So, I started yelling out,“Benefactor Member Baby!” and pumping my fist.
There were cops all over the place and news choppers in the air. We disagreed amiably, but they may have been surprised that there was opposition. Well, there is, and I am part of it.
To lead a hue and cry against the NRA and AR-15’s is self-destructive. What is you need one some day? And that is what I have to say on the subject.
[I think it was David Hogg that organized the marches, all over America.]
---
### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/2 "2018-04-20T18:41:46Z")
> [@Mister\_Mills](#):
>
> I was on 5th Ave N, and the demonstrators from Saint Petersburg High School happened by. They were chanting, “Hey, hey, ho, ho–The NRA has got to go!”, as they walked down the sidewalk.
> So, I started yelling out,“Benefactor Member Baby!” and pumping my fist.
>
> There were cops all over the place and news choppers in the air. We disagreed amiably, but they may have been surprised that there was opposition. Well, there is, and I am part of it.
> To lead a hue and cry against the NRA and AR-15’s is self-destructive. What is you need one some day? And that is what I have to say on the subject.
>
> [I think it was David Hogg that organized the marches, all over America.]
Before you sign off, may I ask you a question. How many times has it come up that someone needed to use an AR-15?
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### Author:  [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/3 "2018-04-20T18:55:28Z")
> [@Mister\_Mills](#):
>
> What is you need one some day?
For what? To commit suicide? Because statistically that is more far likely than the gun being put to use for protection. (Put another way a gun in your home makes you less safe, not more safe.)
> [@](#):
>
> Almost two-thirds of the people in the U.S. population live in homes without guns, and there is no evidence that the inhabitants of these homes are at greater risk of being robbed, injured or killed by criminals compared with citizens in homes with guns. Instead, the evidence is overwhelming that a gun in the home increases the likelihood not only that a household member will be shot accidentally, but also that someone in the home will die in a suicide or homicide.
>
> SOURCE: [Op-Ed: Does owning a gun make you safer?](http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0804-hemenway-defensive-gun-home-20150730-story.html)
---
### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/4 "2018-04-20T18:58:10Z")
I think he has said all he has to say on the subject.
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### Author:  [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/5 "2018-04-20T19:00:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> Before you sign off, may I ask you a question. How many times has it come up that someone needed to use an AR-15?
I couldn’t open a jar of pickles yesterday. An AR-15 would have come in really handy to shoot the lid off.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/6 "2018-04-20T19:45:04Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#):
>
> For what? To commit suicide? Because statistically that is more far likely than the gun being put to use for protection. (Put another way a gun in your home makes you less safe, not more safe.)
Are you sure about that? “put to use for protection” sounds like a pretty broad category.
---
### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/7 "2018-04-20T19:48:16Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> Are you sure about that? “put to use for protection” sounds like a pretty broad category.
Since the OP has said all he is going to say, maybe you can answer my question: How many times has it come up that someone needed to use an AR-15?
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/8 "2018-04-20T20:08:10Z")
I would like to attend a demonstartion. I don’t think I’ve ever started a demon.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/9 "2018-04-20T20:26:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> Since the OP has said all he is going to say, maybe you can answer my question: How many times has it come up that someone needed to use an AR-15?
I doubt there’s an available answer to your question. I don’t know of a good way to measure “needed to use” (It sounds like the sort of thing that would require peeking into alternate universes and recording the results), but I do know that there are a great many defensive gun uses by citizens every year, and some portion of them involve AR-pattern rifles. I suppose some of those DGUs could have been completed successfully with a different model firearm, and presumably some unsuccessful DGUs might have succeeded if the victim had been armed with an AR-15 instead of whatever other model they did have, but again, without some way of exploring alternate universes, I don’t know how we can hope to find a specific answer to “how many times”.
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### Author:  [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/10 "2018-04-20T20:29:37Z")
What’s a benefactor member baby, I wonder.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/11 "2018-04-20T20:31:39Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> I doubt there’s an available answer to your question. I don’t know of a good way to measure “needed to use” (It sounds like the sort of thing that would require peeking into alternate universes and recording the results), but I do know that there are a great many defensive gun uses by citizens every year, and some portion of them involve AR-pattern rifles. I suppose some of those DGUs could have been completed successfully with a different model firearm, and presumably some unsuccessful DGUs might have succeeded if the victim had been armed with an AR-15 instead of whatever other model they did have, but again, without some way of exploring alternate universes, I don’t know how we can hope to find a specific answer to “how many times”.
Can you perhaps come up with five times that an AR-15 was needed by a civilian as opposed to any other weapon?
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### Author:  [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/12 "2018-04-20T20:32:26Z")
> [@Slash1972](#):
>
> I couldn’t open a jar of pickles yesterday. An AR-15 would have come in really handy to shoot the lid off.
This is very silly. The ballistics on the 5.56 x 45 mm NATO are clearly overkill for this application, and the supersonic report of the bullet at ~850 m/s represents an occupational safety hazard. A 149 gr 9mmP in a classic single acgtion Browning Hi-Power or a modern modular striker-fired Sig P320 pistol with a quick-detact silencer is clearly the preferred tool for this choice. Now, I know you’re going to come back and argue for the simplicity of direct impingment, ready availability of surplus 5.56 ammo in high capicity STANAG magazines, and the need for the kind of penetration required to stop a wanton rampaging pickle that slithers its way out of your hand and onto the kitchen floor, but I’ll remind you that shot placement and quick sights on target are really the key aspects in preventing yet another brined cucumber assault, and the ready access to an easily carried compact service pistol trumps the firepower of a carbine. I’ll remind you of the Great Kimchi Massacre of 1997 and how the delay in getting to the unfortunately vaulted FN-FALs resulted in the needless deaths of many a dolsot bibimbap, and if only the defenders had access to duty sidearms instead of just ineffecually spraying sriratcha we might not have lost so many delicious dishes that day to another pointless mass vegicide.
As for the o.p. good on you for challenging those students in expressing their desire to not be shot in yet another school shooting and their condemnation of a firearms industry-lobbying group which has stridently opposed even minimal oversights and uniform national background check standards. Who do these uppity students think they are, expressing thoughts as if they are real people with genuine concerns for their welfare and that of others. And how eloquent of you to punctuate your response with a fist pump, which I believe was the same gesture that Abraham Lincoln used at the end of the Gettysburg Address. Freedom, God, and Guns is What America Is All About, and if that means we have the highest per capita rate of firearm violence and mass shootings of any developed nation in peacetime, that’s just the price you pay.
I had a point when I started this but it has since disappeared like Dana Loesch’s ability to follow a linear argument.
Stranger
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/13 "2018-04-20T20:32:46Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#):
>
> What’s a benefactor member baby, I wonder.
Someone who has given a significant sum of money to the NRA.
> **[Endowment, Patron and Benefactor Memberships](https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/superlife.asp)**
>
> The Official NRA Membership upgrade page.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/14 "2018-04-20T20:35:34Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> Someone who has given a significant sum of money to the NRA.
>
> [Endowment, Patron and Benefactor Memberships](https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/superlife.asp)
So he has time, money and a shitload of emotional investment in the NRA. Chains like those are mighty hard to break.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/15 "2018-04-20T20:35:47Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#):
>
> … the supersonic report of the bullet at ~850 m/s represents an occupational safety hazard. …
This is why it’s critical that we pass the Hearing Protection Act ASAP.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/16 "2018-04-20T20:40:53Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> This is why it’s critical that we pass the Hearing Protection Act ASAP.
Is that the act that provides free ear plugs and ear mufflers to gun owners?
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/17 "2018-04-20T20:57:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> Can you perhaps come up with five times that an AR-15 was needed by a civilian as opposed to any other weapon?
I could certainly come up with five times an AR-15 was used by a civilian, but again, without a way to explore alternate realities where we can know with certainty the outcome had they used some other weapon, I don’t know how you could be convinced that the AR-15 was needed, as opposed to any other weapon.
FWIW, I don’t consider this a particularly genuine argument either, as I imagine that you’d be no happier if we could wave a magic wand and change everyone’s AR-15’s into an FS-2000 / SCAR-L / Tavor.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/18 "2018-04-20T20:58:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> Is that the act that provides free ear plugs and ear mufflers to gun owners?
Something like that. 😉
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/19 "2018-04-20T21:11:19Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> Something like that. 😉
I’m not winking. I think using the name of an act to disguise its actual purpose is despicable. You might as well have named it “The Lollypops And Rainbows Act”. Rather than take the chance of explaining the usefulness of suppression devices on guns when it comes to reducing noise(which was done here in another thread quite successfully), it was decided to name it something that sounds nice but tells nothing.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/20 "2018-04-20T21:15:21Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> I could certainly come up with five times an AR-15 was used by a civilian, but again, without a way to explore alternate realities where we can know with certainty the outcome had they used some other weapon, I don’t know how you could be convinced that the AR-15 was needed, as opposed to any other weapon.
>
> FWIW, I don’t consider this a particularly genuine argument either, as I imagine that you’d be no happier if we could wave a magic wand and change everyone’s AR-15’s into an FS-2000 / SCAR-L / Tavor.
I don’t care if you consider it a “genuine argument”, because it _was_ part of the argument the OP made and you came to defend. He stated that a person shouldn’t protest against AR-15s because you never know when you might need that particular weapon in the future.
Is that true, or false?
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