# At The Demonstartion Against The NRA. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 20, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805 "2018-04-20T18:27:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/361 "2018-05-19T02:11:18Z")
I have an abiding faith in humanity. I believe that if someone were to point out to you how close you are to gloating over the death of youngsters, you will never do it again. Worth a try. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/362 "2018-05-19T02:43:08Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I have an abiding faith in humanity. I believe that if someone were to point out to you how close you are to gloating over the death of youngsters, you will never do it again. Worth a try. It hasn’t shamed the NRA, their spokespeople or their right wing allies yet. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/363 "2018-05-19T04:50:59Z")
> [@FavreCo](#): > > Ban the AR-15 argument just got blow up. Obviously they are not needed for a mass shooting. What is the ‘ban guns’ wackos move now since this one failed miserably? The fact that you don’t need an AR-15 to commit a mass shooting doesn’t mean that banning them won’t prevent some shootings. Should we also abolish the speed limit, since you don’t need to be speeding to run someone over? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/364 "2018-05-19T06:11:41Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The fact that you don’t need an AR-15 to commit a mass shooting doesn’t mean that banning them won’t prevent some shootings. Should we also abolish the speed limit, since you don’t need to be speeding to run someone over? I dont think that would _prevent_ any shootings. I concede it might reduce the casualty count at some mass shootings. So, what guns do you want to ban? You do know that “assault weapons” are hardly ever used in murders or other crimes, right? That horrific as they are, mass shootings are only a blip on the violent crime radar, right? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/365 "2018-05-19T07:53:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You do know that “assault weapons” are hardly ever used in murders or other crimes, right? That horrific as they are, mass shootings are only a blip on the violent crime radar, right? Weapons like the AR-15 have no legitimate civilian application. The only reason to own one is if you want to be able to kill a large amount of human beings quickly. Frankly, I don’t see why a civilian needs to own a handgun either. Shotguns and single-shot rifles at least have legitimate applications, for home defense, hunting, and pest control. At the very least, we should treat guns the way we treat cars - license the owners, register the guns they own, require gun owners to carry liability insurance in case their gun hurts someone, and hold them criminally accountable if someone gets hurt or killed because they handled or stored their gun irresponsibly. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/366 "2018-05-19T16:09:05Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Weapons like the AR-15 have no legitimate civilian application. The only reason to own one is if you want to be able to kill a large amount of human beings quickly. Frankly, I don’t see why a civilian needs to own a handgun either. Shotguns and single-shot rifles at least have legitimate applications, for home defense, hunting, and pest control. > > At the very least, we should treat guns the way we treat cars - license the owners, register the guns they own, require gun owners to carry liability insurance in case their gun hurts someone, and hold them criminally accountable if someone gets hurt or killed because they handled or stored their gun irresponsibly. As pointed out many times here, they do. They are very good at varmint hunting and also home defense, especially out in rural areas. Handguns are needed for security guards, to train for Olympic sports, and for self protection, etc. No cars are not like guns. First of all, cars only have to be registered if used on public highways. Same with insurance. Nor do you need a drivers licence to own a car or drive it on your own property. Indeed, you can be held \*criminally accountable if someone gets hurt or killed because they handled or stored their gun irresponsibly. \* ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/367 "2018-05-19T16:54:21Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > …to train for Olympic sports… Boy, is my face red! I had not even thought about the _millions_ of my fellow Americans who require handguns to fulfill their Olympiad dreams! Though, maybe just as well Tonya Harding wasn’t armed… ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/368 "2018-05-19T19:40:11Z")
> [@FavreCo](#): > > Ban the AR-15 argument just got blow up. Obviously they are not needed for a mass shooting. What is the ‘ban guns’ wackos move now since this one failed miserably? > > Ban pipes for pipe bombs, pressure cookers, shotguns and hand guns? So, you’re disappointed the shooter only killed 10 people, not 30? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/369 "2018-05-20T11:03:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Handguns are needed for security guards, to train for Olympic sports, and for self protection, etc. Funny how every single other nation on Earth manages to train its Olympic pistoliers without allowing unlimited and unrestricted ownership of as many guns of any type as one can afford. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/370 "2018-05-20T11:53:38Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Aiming is useful for people who want to take out a particular target. Really useful if they want to avoid hitting anything else. > > Aiming has nothing to do with mass shootings. > > For mass shootings RoF is what is most important. You need to rethink this. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/371 "2018-05-20T14:20:09Z")
Somebody does, that much is sure! * * * America! Fucked, yeah! ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/372 "2018-05-20T14:23:58Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Should we also abolish the speed limit, since you don’t need to be speeding to run someone over? No. But would should ban red cars. That will eliminate some speeding and runnings over, at least. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/373 "2018-05-20T15:12:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No cars are not like guns. First of all, cars only have to be registered if used on public highways. Same with insurance. Nor do you need a drivers licence to own a car or drive it on your own property. Good proposal, thanks. You need to register your gun, have a proper license for each one and carry liability insurance if and only if you take your gun off your property. Surely that is acceptable to you. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/374 "2018-05-20T15:16:24Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > You need to rethink this. Okay… Rethinking done. More bullets into a crowd of people=more people in that crowd being wounded or killed. > [@ChickenLegs](#): > > No. But would should ban red cars. That will eliminate some speeding and runnings over, at least. That would be silly. But, we could require certain levels of safety standards built into cars. We could require that cars be licensed and registered. We could require that anyone using or operating a car have met and proven certain minimum standards of diligence. We could have people whose job it is to specifically monitor the use of cars on public motorways, and give helpful reminders as to the proper and safe operation. We could allow that, if someone has demonstrated lack of skill, capability, or responsibility to use a car in a safe fashion, that we take away their privilege of operating one. We could even require that they carry insurance, so that, in the event that even the most diligent driver is involved in an accident, parties can receive some level of restitution towards making them whole again. Oh wait, we already do. > [@OldGuy](#): > > Good proposal, thanks. You need to register your gun, have a proper license for each one and carry liability insurance if and only if you take your gun off your property. Surely that is acceptable to you. And be fully both fiscally and criminally responsible if your carelessness allows the guns to be used off of your property. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/375 "2018-05-20T20:43:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Funny how every single other nation on Earth manages to train its Olympic pistoliers without allowing unlimited and unrestricted ownership of as many guns of any type as one can afford. Neither does the USA. And other nations also have few gun controls. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/376 "2018-05-20T20:44:32Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Good proposal, thanks. You need to register your gun, have a proper license for each one and carry liability insurance if and only if you take your gun off your property. Surely that is acceptable to you. If you carry a gun, you have to have a permit in most states. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/377 "2018-05-21T13:19:08Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > But, we could require certain levels of safety standards built into cars. We could require that cars be licensed and registered. We could require that anyone using or operating a car have met and proven certain minimum standards of diligence. We could have people whose job it is to specifically monitor the use of cars on public motorways, and give helpful reminders as to the proper and safe operation. We could allow that, if someone has demonstrated lack of skill, capability, or responsibility to use a car in a safe fashion, that we take away their privilege of operating one. We could even require that they carry insurance, so that, in the event that even the most diligent driver is involved in an accident, parties can receive some level of restitution towards making them whole again. > > Oh wait, we already do. Why didn’t we just offer thoughts and prayers to everyone killed by an unsafe car or a drunk driver and throw up our hands and say “Nothing can be done about this”? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/378 "2018-05-21T14:07:31Z")
Actually, the cultural similarities are rather striking. Who remembers the early days of the campaign against drunk driving? How often groups like Mothers Against Drunk Driving were sneered upon for being shrill and hysterical? How the designated driver became a “thing”? And the degree of “buzz” that a .1% alcohol blood equates to? Roughly speaking, if you are telling yourself you are perfectly fine to drive, and heck! you drive a little better with a bit of a buzz, you are more careful, just like you are better looking and more witty… you are impaired, alcohol lies, its why we like it so much. Turns out, a social drinker is a drunk driver, more often than not. I take this diversion to illustrate a point: cultural change is the answer, what was the question again? Changing our culture on guns would seem to be an easier “lift”, but it isn’t. There is a segment of our population that flat out _loves_ the damned things! Especially us of the hairy/stinky gender, the soft guys with the wobbly bits tend to have better sense. That’s where it has to happen, the hard way, the long road, the agonizingly slow. Because sometimes the truth can stare us right in the face and piss on our shoes, and we still won’t see it. And yes, lots of people still going to die, because we _are_ that stupid. But even a journey of a thousand miles begins with but a single stumble. ---
**Author:** ![Burty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/49beb7/32.png) [@Burty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Burty)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805/379 "2018-06-03T01:55:43Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > … The law against silencers is founded in ignorance. Silencers should be legal, so people can shoot without damaging their hearing or disturbing those for miles around. Anyone familiar with silencers knows they don’t do what they do in the movies. You can still hear them. It just doesn’t Hurt to heAr them. The general trend by the states is to ease restrictions on silencers. Only nine states now require a license to possess them; the rest have few/no restrictions or just require the tax stamp. MN was one of the latest states to ease restrictions. I doubt that Trump will do anything to promote the Hearing Protection Act bill in Congress though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-the-demonstartion-against-the-nra/812805.md?page=18)