# At what age should kids sports start keeping score? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 16, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-age-should-kids-sports-start-keeping-score/557348 "2010-10-16T16:07:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![PennyGaunjworth\_of\_chicago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@PennyGaunjworth\_of\_chicago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PennyGaunjworth_of_chicago)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-age-should-kids-sports-start-keeping-score/557348/61 "2010-10-18T03:43:23Z")
there was score kept in every sport that i played, ever. and im talking my whole life. i think i turned out ok. who the hell feels so badly about themselves and is\* that\* poor of a sport that they must take it upon themselves to make sure the children dont keep score or feel that they actually accomplished something? scoring teaches kids about life. it teaches them that they will win and lose in life. what happens when they fail at something in their life and they cant handle it? ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-age-should-kids-sports-start-keeping-score/557348/62 "2010-10-18T03:47:11Z")
> [@Spud](#): > > I’ll briefly share how I made her cry in second grade when after winning a local rec championship she mentioned at dinner something about “when I play in college” and I tried my best to use logic to tell her how bad the odds are. All these years later I still feel like an asshole for that moment, and I’m pretty sure she has pushed herself just to prove me wrong on that night. :smack: Cool! Maybe this will work for us, too! My second-grader is dreaming of playing football for NC State one day (bless his heart\*). Although he loves sports and works very hard to improve, he seems like he’s going to be more naturally talented at the academic stuff. I was trying to explain to him that he may one day get an athletic scholarship, but he should work really hard in school because an academic scholarship would probably be the more attainable goal for him. I’m perfectly willing to feel like an asshole! \*Go Terps! ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-age-should-kids-sports-start-keeping-score/557348/63 "2010-10-18T04:40:51Z")
> [@C3](#): > > Cool! Maybe this will work for us, too! My second-grader is dreaming of playing football for NC State one day (bless his heart\*). Although he loves sports and works very hard to improve, he seems like he’s going to be more naturally talented at the academic stuff. I was trying to explain to him that he may one day get an athletic scholarship, but he should work really hard in school because an academic scholarship would probably be the more attainable goal for him. I’m perfectly willing to feel like an asshole! > > \*Go Terps! I assume you know NC St is the Wolfpack. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-age-should-kids-sports-start-keeping-score/557348/64 "2010-10-18T05:41:07Z")
> [@Spud](#): > > Do you really think this would happen if they didn’t keep score? Absolutely. When sports teams are looking for players they look for physical ability and potential, talent, and the ability to learn and be coached. They care very little about your stats at the previous level, nevertheless the score of your games as a kid. ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-age-should-kids-sports-start-keeping-score/557348/65 "2010-10-18T11:50:45Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > I assume you know NC St is the Wolfpack. 🙂 Uh, yeah, that’s why I said “bless his heart” (Southernism for “poor, deluded little thing”). I went to Maryland. ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-age-should-kids-sports-start-keeping-score/557348/66 "2010-10-18T13:50:04Z")
> [@Cyberhwk](#): > > Absolutely. When sports teams are looking for players they look for physical ability and potential, talent, and the ability to learn and be coached. They care very little about your stats at the previous level, nevertheless the score of your games as a kid. Absolutely not. Sure, they don’t care that you beat Mt. Pilot 4-3… but they do care that you won the prestigious tournament or that you won the state and or regional championship. You can’t do those things without keeping score. There are thousands of teams out there and the coaches don’t have time to look at all of them to see and evaluate who has the physical ability and potential talent. They need something to narrow it down, and this is the way they do it. In a couple of weeks we are driving to the next state to play some “friendlies.” This is not a tournament, and doesn’t really count in the record books. We are playing top teams in several surrounding states and there will be at least a dozen college coaches in attendance. This would not happen if we (and the other teams) didn’t have a proven track record of winning. ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-age-should-kids-sports-start-keeping-score/557348/67 "2010-10-18T16:57:06Z")
> [@C3](#): > > Cool! Maybe this will work for us, too! My second-grader is dreaming of playing football for NC State one day (bless his heart\*). Although he loves sports and works very hard to improve, he seems like he’s going to be more naturally talented at the academic stuff. I was trying to explain to him that he may one day get an athletic scholarship, but he should work really hard in school because an academic scholarship would probably be the more attainable goal for him. I’m perfectly willing to feel like an asshole! > > \*Go Terps! I like to think that she pushes herself on the athletic field to prove me wrong… and pushes herself in the classroom in case I wasn’t. So, yeah I’m taking credit for it all 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-age-should-kids-sports-start-keeping-score/557348/68 "2010-10-18T17:29:14Z")
cubsfan where do you live, that there’s not a competitive soccer league for 7 year olds? Every city I’ve lived in has non-competitive leagues and competitive leagues. Quit bitching about the league your son is in and put him in one where they keep score. Or are you just being pussified by the kid’s mom, who makes the rules in your family? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-age-should-kids-sports-start-keeping-score/557348/69 "2010-10-18T17:41:15Z")
[quote=“Cubsfan, post:1, topic:557348”] When I was his age playing minor league baseball we kept score and win loss records. [quote] This is great. > [@](#): > > We got killed every week and we all survived. This is fine. > [@](#): > > My coach could yell at us to stop fucking around and pull kids that wouldn’t listen. This is foolish. ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-age-should-kids-sports-start-keeping-score/557348/70 "2010-10-18T17:58:08Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > Or are you just being pussified by the kid’s mom, who makes the rules in your family? Can we quit with the blaming women for teams that don’t keep score? In my experience, this is done not so the mommies can protect their little babies, but so the kids can play without having (some of) the adults turn into complete maniacs. I’m female and I’m as open to healthy competition as any man I know, as were most of the girls and women I’ve ever played sports with (or competed against in music or academics). Being a girl doesn’t make you a wuss and I know plenty of men who aren’t comfortable with competitive activities. > [@Frylock](#): > > This is foolish. Why is it foolish to expect kids to pay attention when they’re at practice? If they’re going to take part in an activity (a voluntary one!), they should be taking part in the activity. If my son was at practice and not paying attention to the coach or being disruptive, I would expect the coach to have some stern words with him and, if that didn’t happen, he would be hearing those stern words from me. If he didn’t want to be there, we would go home. I’m not going to waste my time (and usually, money!) and the rest of the team’s time with a child who would rather be doing something else. Part of the benefit of organized sports is to teach a child how to be respectful of coaches and teammates. Screwing around when you’re supposed to be paying attention and learning is not respectful. ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-age-should-kids-sports-start-keeping-score/557348/71 "2010-10-18T18:05:16Z")
> [@SSG\_Schwartz](#): > > If you are old enough to play a game, you should be old enough to know if you won or lost. Otherwise, why even have a goal, goalees, or even an opposing team? > > Winning or losing, it ain’t like a 5YO gets hung up on this kind of thing unless someone else gets them to care. > > SSG (P) Schwartz This sums up my feelings on the matter. Even my four-year old gets that some people win and some people lose when playing games. There’s no reason _not_ to keep score. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-age-should-kids-sports-start-keeping-score/557348/72 "2010-10-18T18:17:09Z")
Here is your problem - you are playing in a recreation league. If you want to keep score, join a club. I have a 7 year old playing rec. Scores are not recorded, but they are certainly tracked during the match. AYSO is the largest recreation soccer leage, and they operate under the following principles: > [@](#): > > Everyone Plays > Our program’s goal is for kids to play soccer-so we mandate that every player on every team must play at least half of every game, and no player can play an entire game unless every other player has played at least three quarters > > Balanced Teams > Each year we form new teams as evenly balanced as possible-because it is fair and more fun when teams of equal ability play. > > Open Registration > Our program is open to all children between 4 and 19 years of age who want to register and play soccer. Interest and enthusiasm are the only criteria for playing. > > Positive Coaching > Encouragement of player effort provides for greater enjoyment by the players and ultimately leads to better-skilled and better-motivated players. > > Good Sportsmanship > We strive to create a positive environment based on mutual respect rather than a win-at-all-costs attitude, and our program is designed to instill good sportsmanship in every facet of AYSO. Let add in another rule. AYSO REQUIRES that every kid plays half of the game. In my region, we make it 3 out of 4 quarters. You are also not supposed to just park a kid in the same position all game (unless the kid personally requests it). So there are a ton of rules in place that are counter to the “learn by losing” attitude I am picking up from some posters here. In our region, we start tracking scores and standings at the U10 level (8 and 9 year olds). That is also when we eliminate neighborhood teams, and instead have evaluations and an attempt at balanced teams. Our U8 players don’t keep standings, but they know who won and who lost up until the point that they get a snack. Now, if I wanted to win every game, I would have to coach my little kid’s match like I coach my U17 club team. That means I bench the poorer players. By bench I mean that they don’t play at all. That means if we lose (or if we don’t win by enough points), my guys are running laps at the end of the game. They will also be harassed at our 3 mandatory practices during the following week. However - this is highly competitive club soccer where parents are paying $2,000 to play on the team and we are in tournaments where college and professional scouts are watching. We don’t need that for rec soccer. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-age-should-kids-sports-start-keeping-score/557348/73 "2010-10-18T18:18:20Z")
> [@C3](#): > > Can we quit with the blaming women for teams that don’t keep score? Well since it’s obvious that Cubsfan wishes his kid played in league that kept score it must either be the kid’s Mom or his other Dad that’s got him in this non-scoring league. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-age-should-kids-sports-start-keeping-score/557348/74 "2010-10-18T18:31:48Z")
> [@C3](#): > > Why is it foolish to expect kids to pay attention when they’re at practice? If they’re going to take part in an activity (a voluntary one!), they should be taking part in the activity. If my son was at practice and not paying attention to the coach or being disruptive, I would expect the coach to have some stern words with him and, if that didn’t happen, he would be hearing those stern words from me. If he didn’t want to be there, we would go home. I’m not going to waste my time (and usually, money!) and the rest of the team’s time with a child who would rather be doing something else. Part of the benefit of organized sports is to teach a child how to be respectful of coaches and teammates. Screwing around when you’re supposed to be paying attention and learning is not respectful. Screaming at kids to not “fuck around” doesn’t sound like a great idea, and it doesn’t sound like the coach has a good grasp of managing the kids if he has to resort to yelling profanity at them. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-age-should-kids-sports-start-keeping-score/557348/75 "2010-10-18T18:37:11Z")
> [@C3](#): > > Why is it foolish to expect kids to pay attention when they’re at practice? If they’re going to take part in an activity (a voluntary one!), they should be taking part in the activity. If my son was at practice and not paying attention to the coach or being disruptive, I would expect the coach to have some stern words with him and, if that didn’t happen, he would be hearing those stern words from me. If he didn’t want to be there, we would go home. I’m not going to waste my time (and usually, money!) and the rest of the team’s time with a child who would rather be doing something else. Part of the benefit of organized sports is to teach a child how to be respectful of coaches and teammates. Screwing around when you’re supposed to be paying attention and learning is not respectful. Actually, I just misread you. So never mind! ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-age-should-kids-sports-start-keeping-score/557348/76 "2010-10-18T18:38:07Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Screaming at kids to not “fuck around” doesn’t sound like a great idea, and it doesn’t sound like the coach has a good grasp of managing the kids if he has to resort to yelling profanity at them. I see what you mean - I didn’t take **Cubsfan’s** original comment to mean that the coach was literally saying, “Quit fucking around!” I thought he meant that the coach was saying that in so many words. I agree with you about the profanity, but I don’t have a problem at all with the expectation that the kids shouldn’t be fucking around. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-age-should-kids-sports-start-keeping-score/557348/77 "2010-10-18T18:38:12Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Screaming at kids to not “fuck around” doesn’t sound like a great idea, and it doesn’t sound like the coach has a good grasp of managing the kids if he has to resort to yelling profanity at them. That’s part of what I was thinking, but I now think that he was paraphrasing the coach. The attitude implied by the word choice in the OP is, I think, not good. But just taking him literally for what he said (assuming he’s paraphrasing the coach) there’s nothing provably objectionable there. ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-age-should-kids-sports-start-keeping-score/557348/78 "2010-10-18T18:43:59Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > The attitude implied by the word choice in the OP is, I think, not good. Eh, I don’t know. When a coach has 20 seven year olds in front of him and three are picking dandelions, two are spinning in circles, and one is writing letters in the dirt, I can forgive him if the thought that goes through his mind is, “Quit fucking around!” (although I would expect him to phrase it in a more professional way). ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-age-should-kids-sports-start-keeping-score/557348/79 "2010-10-18T18:52:17Z")
> [@C3](#): > > Eh, I don’t know. When a coach has 20 seven year olds in front of him and three are picking dandelions, two are spinning in circles, and one is writing letters in the dirt, I can forgive him if the thought that goes through his mind is, “Quit fucking around!” (although I would expect him to phrase it in a more professional way). 20 is WAY too many to coach at that level. We only carry 18 on our official roster at the U17 level. The optimal size for U8 is a roster of 7, playing 5 v 5 in a short-sided match. Again from AYSO: > [@](#): > > The Players: > There will be Five per team on field; no goalkeepers. Seven maximum on roster. > > Substitutions are between periods, at halftime and for injuries. The players will be seperated by girls and boys teams at all levels of play. Playing time is a minimum of two periods per game and no player should play four periods until everyone has played three. Separate girls and boys teams should be promoted at all levels of play. [http://www.soccer.org/resources/short\_sided\_games/u08\_guidelines.aspx](http://www.soccer.org/resources/short_sided_games/u08_guidelines.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-age-should-kids-sports-start-keeping-score/557348/80 "2010-10-18T19:02:15Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > 20 is WAY too many to coach at that level. We only carry 18 on our official roster at the U17 level. > > The optimal size for U8 is a roster of 7, playing 5 v 5 in a short-sided match. Again from AYSO: > > [http://www.soccer.org/resources/short\_sided\_games/u08\_guidelines.aspx](http://www.soccer.org/resources/short_sided_games/u08_guidelines.aspx) Oh, good grief. My kid has never played soccer, so - forgive me - I was going by other team sports he has played. No need to pull out the official rulebook. There are 28 kids on my son’s football team. Probably 18-20 on the t-ball team. Maybe about 12 on his basketball team. About 50 on his swim team. And my 4 year old has the recommended number of 10 in his dance class. Regardless, I was making a lighthearted comment about the frustrations a coach may be going through when trying to wrangle any number of seven year olds. With only two short people in my home, I have certainly had the wish that they would just quit fucking around sometimes (although I don’t say it out loud!). I don’t think that’s indicative of a problematic attitude. I think it’s indicative of the fact that sometimes little kids can be frustratingly distracted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-age-should-kids-sports-start-keeping-score/557348.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-age-should-kids-sports-start-keeping-score/557348.md?page=5)