# At What Level of Brain Power Do Animals Experience Joy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 2, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-level-of-brain-power-do-animals-experience-joy/736423 "2015-11-02T15:23:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-level-of-brain-power-do-animals-experience-joy/736423/1 "2015-11-02T15:23:25Z")
Primitive animals (like reptiles) are like machines they do not exhibit play behaviors as young animals. They appear to be hardwired to hunt, eat, reproduce, etc., and that is about it. Higher animals like humans have something called "joy"dogs also …I just had my dog out for a walk, and she runs and picks up sticks, (apparently) for the sheer joy of it. Is the experience of joy a function of brain size? If we constructed an artificial human intelligence, would it experience joy as well? ---
**Author:** ![JcWoman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jcwoman/32/2889_2.png) [@JcWoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JcWoman)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-level-of-brain-power-do-animals-experience-joy/736423/2 "2015-11-02T15:41:16Z")
Basic emotions like joy are found in the species that have highly developed social systems. For example: dogs, horses, elephants, dolphins and the higher primates. I don’t know that it’s related to brain size. But animal behavior researchers are actively studying this topic in order to get statistically valid data. There are lots of anecdotes from pet owners and researchers in the field, but it’s hard to get large and scientifically-adequate sampling on this stuff. One of the studies done was to train some dogs to tolerate the noise of MRI machines and then study them with fMRI (functional MRI). They’re finding that when a dog is shown a picture of something it likes, for example, the same brain reactions/chemistry occurs in the dog’s brain as in human brains. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-level-of-brain-power-do-animals-experience-joy/736423/3 "2015-11-02T15:49:11Z")
I don’t know if it can be categorized as ‘joy’ but some reptiles show signs of satisfaction. I had a large iguana with a mean temperament but he clearly showed some kind of positive reaction to being fed his favorite foods, carrot tops and bananas. Some people report emotional responses from turtles, they seem to have more of a relationship with humans than many reptiles. I recall some tidbits about alligator social behavior also, nothing that quite translates to joy, but more complex behavior than is usually associated with reptiles. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-level-of-brain-power-do-animals-experience-joy/736423/4 "2015-11-02T16:18:31Z")
I’ve owned a couple of guinea pigs over the years (an animal not exactly known for its immense brain size) and they definitely play and form emotional bonds and experience “joy” as per the OP. I saw a video the other day of a pet rat playing peek-a-boo, and according to the article, and to some people that I’ve talked with, rats do form social bonds and play. I have no desire to own one as a pet though so I can’t say from personal experience. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-level-of-brain-power-do-animals-experience-joy/736423/5 "2015-11-02T18:46:30Z")
Video’s of dogs when a vet returns from deployment? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-level-of-brain-power-do-animals-experience-joy/736423/6 "2015-11-02T19:25:57Z")
I wonder what kind of “emotions” animals like clams and barnacles have. Seems like they’d be horribly bored. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-level-of-brain-power-do-animals-experience-joy/736423/7 "2015-11-02T19:28:40Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > If we constructed an artificial human intelligence, would it experience joy as well? Emotions aren’t a necessity for intelligence, but I suppose if we get that far we can work out the emotions also, or have the machine work it out. ---
**Author:** ![Ornery\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/da6949/32.png) [@Ornery\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ornery_Bob)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-level-of-brain-power-do-animals-experience-joy/736423/8 "2015-11-02T19:54:29Z")
- If we constructed an artificial human intelligence, would it experience joy as well?\* I’d be more concerned that it develop empathy. A human intelligence lacking empathy is a sociopath. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-level-of-brain-power-do-animals-experience-joy/736423/9 "2015-11-02T20:07:47Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I wonder what kind of “emotions” animals like clams and barnacles have. Seems like they’d be horribly bored. I don’t think clams even have brains, so I expect that they can’t feel any kind of emotions. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-level-of-brain-power-do-animals-experience-joy/736423/10 "2015-11-02T20:08:57Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > I don’t think clams even have brains, so I expect that they can’t feel any kind of emotions. I’ve heard they’re very happy. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-level-of-brain-power-do-animals-experience-joy/736423/11 "2015-11-02T20:12:08Z")
I’ve always interpreted emotions to be a kind of intelligence. Emotions are a motivation to act. Any creature that has a choice of actions probably has some sort of emotions. A simple clam or worm may not experience joy, but it will have urges to act toward some things and away from other things. There will be feelings of irritation vs. contentment at the very least. Even if contentment is just a lack of irritation. There will also be yearning and fear. Maybe satiation. At what point does contentment morph into joy? Does joy count if it’s only internal, or does it have to provoke some obvious behavior? ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-level-of-brain-power-do-animals-experience-joy/736423/12 "2015-11-02T20:47:38Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I wonder what kind of “emotions” animals like clams and barnacles have. Seems like they’d be horribly bored. > [@Diceman](#): > > I don’t think clams even have brains, so I expect that they can’t feel any kind of emotions. Does a clam need a brain to feel? A clam has an interconnected series of paired ganglia. Two cerebropleural ganglia control input from their sensory organs, which fringe the mantle (the inner edge of the shell) and may be located near the siphon as well. These organs sense dissolved chemicals and are touch sensitive. How can you be bored when you’re tasting the whole world all the time, aware of food to be siphoned and of pheromones to be reacted to? Clams also have organs that can sense orientation relative to the pull of gravity. A few types of clam have simple eyes, pits with photo-sensory cells and a lens. They especially react to shadows. How can you be bored while constantly on the alert for possible predators? In additon, two pleural ganglia connect to the mantle cavity. Two pedal ganglia control the foot and two visceral ganglia control the adductor muscles, which close the shell. If its siphon is large, it will have siphonal ganglia as well. A clam is connected. Sensations provoke actions, some of them learned. Sure, no clam is going to be particularly aware if itself and its feelings. It’s also not going to be thinking about how much better the siphoning was in the old times, years ago. But in the times when the siphoning is good, other nearby clams smell ready to reproduce, and no shadows flicker - who is to say that a clam’s ganglia don’t resonate contentment. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-level-of-brain-power-do-animals-experience-joy/736423/13 "2015-11-03T02:38:56Z")
Ahh, life is good when you’re not being digested alive by a [del]sarlacc[/del] starfish.