Not 200. And those people are about half civilian, maybe less. The accurate accounting is coming.
And yet again, I am asking - if you throw a rock at me and score a glancing blow, and in response I throw exactly the same rock back, hit you, you fall down a few floors and land on two kids, killing them - was my response “proportionate”? Not the results. The response. Was it “proportionate”?
They aren’t throwing rocks, they are firing lethal weapons at Israel.
The actual analogy is what if I pull out a gun, shoot a cop and he isn’t seriously injured because it was a weak round and it hit him in his vest, and the cop shooting me back and killing me. There is no real difference in the proportionality of the cop’s response to my action. Yes, the result is disproportionate, but you’re basically saying if I have better defenses to your attacks I should have to use a weaker attack to make up for it.
If not for Iron Dome a lot of Israelis would be dead from all those rockets, it’s not Israel’s fault Hamas can’t stop Israeli guided missiles. I would argue the response from Israel is disproportionate–in that it is less aggressive than the rocket attacks because they are specifically targeted at military targets, and civilians are only hit as collateral damage and that is exacerbated because Hamas wants civilians to die so they launch rockets from civilian buildings. Hamas is directly targeted Israeli civilians.
So yes, the response is already “disproportionate” in that it is more tame than Hamas’ actions.
Oh, is Gaza a world war? I missed that.
As I recall, they did look at the proportionality of that. An invasion of Japan would have been very costly. Also, they didn’t know how effective the bombs would be.
Are you aware that Japan was actively engaged in aggression with us during the war? Do you really think that Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and then we just killed millions of them in response?
Was using the number at Pearl Harbor just an attempt to obfuscate the issue?
Yeah, but I win.
My folks you attacked are alive, and you are dead.
Another guess. Let me know when an accurate count is had.
You’re sugar coating it. The IDF isn’t shooting unguided rockets at low population density areas back at Hamas. They are shooting accurate, modern missiles.
Some shitty rocket hitting randomly in a largely empty area isn’t the same thing as a first world missile knocking a tenement into dust.
So let’s be honest, it’s not a rock being thrown back.
I’m not saying they aren’t winning. Of course the stronger people win in fights.
How many innocent people are you okay with killing to stop a guy with a rock?
So are Gazans throwing rocks or rockets? You know they may share the first four letters but they are not remotely the same.
Read the thread.
Japan attacked us so they could expand in the Pacific without our interference. If we had sued for peace the next day they would have been thrilled to accept. We certainly could have called it all off after killing a few Japanese in a “proportional response.” The Japanese had no desire to invade America or even Hawaii, they just knew we wouldn’t let them expand in peace.
Not to mention that we basically angered them, much as Israel angers Gazans, by limiting their access to raw materials. We were essentially squeezing Japan anyway, they either had to go to war with us or abandon their imperial goals. We may not have fired the first shot, but just like in the Gaza situation we weren’t innocent victims, either.
Under your doctrine of proportional response there was nothing in the war with Japan that required we actually defeat them to be proportional, we had no proportion-based reason to not sue for peace early on.
I have, it’s you that seem confused about what weapons Gazans are using. You also seem confused about the difference between a dangerous, highly lethal weapon, and a rock (also a lethal weapon in the right hands, though.)
If the guy throwing the rock is trying kill my people, lots. Better your innocents die than mine.
Israel left some settlements on the West Bank. The Palestinians tore a greenhouse apart and sold the pipe for scrap. Why not keep the greenhouse working? Provide some food and jobs.
Without suggesting that Israel somehow has huge moral status in all this, are the Palestinians really innocent? I mean, they went to the ballot box, they looked at Hamas’ platform, and most of them thought, “Hey, more rubble, and death to Jews? What’s not to like!” And now their elected leaders have got them in a war they can’t win, with (deadly) rockets being fired from civilian areas. They bear some responsibility. And boy, are they bearing it now.
I don’t have an accurate count. Neither do you. What you do have are numbers fed to you by Hamas.
Yes, they are. That limits civilian casualties. If they were shooting the same missiles as Hamas, in the same numbers, civilian casualties would be an order of magnitude higher.
The people of Palestine not only went to the ballot box, they allow rocket launching and storage
right outside their window. At some point they’ll learn they have to distance themselves from Hamas. If I valued my life and my family’s, I run like hell if I saw rockets being launched from the parking lot next door. I’m not sure what’s happening that these people don’t (can’t?) act,
but I really hope it’s not some belief of being martyred.
I don’t know that they have any choice. Will Hamas hurt them if they leave? Have they been brought up to believe that the trees with Jews hiding behind them will cry out?
They went to the ballot box in 2006. They’ve had no elections since then. They were supposed to have one in 2010, but it got “postponed”.
I’d really question the idea Hamas is “democratically elected” even though it’s something the “we love to stick it to Israel” and the “Israel right or wrong” crowd agree upon.
Democracy is supposed to mean more than “one person, one vote, one time”.
Good point.
The question is: what’s the end game?
Crane
It’s been 100+ years so far in this iteration of it. Why do you think there is an “end game”?
Well, Israel is trying to evacuate the buffer zone. So maybe the intermediate plan is to push Gaza closer to the sea. Thirty year plan, make “Gaza strip” a largish fishing port.
You heard it here first.
Remember when Israel made peace with Egypt? It wasn’t out of love for Egyptians. It was because Egypt represented a REAL threat. They will never make peace with Palestinians until they represent a REAL threat. And when they do, they will either try to destroy them or make peace.