# At what percentile do you think the US becomes better than Germany?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [October 17, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080 "2012-10-17T23:48:46Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)
#### Post date: [October 17, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/1 "2012-10-17T23:48:46Z")
I think it’s probably true to say that if you’re in the top 0.1% of the US, you are probably in the best country in the world.
I think it’s also very true to say that if you’re in the bottom 0.7% of the US, you are probably in the worst western country. Because you are in prison in probably the most evil developed country’s prison system.
So somewhere between these two points, the US has to become better than Germany. I wonder at which point you would put it?
Poll attached but am interested in your reasoning.
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### Author:  [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)
#### Post date: [October 17, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/2 "2012-10-17T23:58:44Z")
Percentile in what? Income? Number of strudels consumed per day? There are lots of countries with equally crappy prisons, especially depending on what western means. “Evil” is an objective measure now? Why was Germany picked, seemingly arbitrarily? usw…
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### Author:  [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2012, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/3 "2012-10-18T00:01:04Z")
you can define better how ever you want but I am essentially asking “at what point would you prefer to be in percentile x in the US over percentile x in Germany”?
Assuming that you spoke German, had German family and friends, etc… / spoke American, had American family and friends, etc…
Evil is of course not an objective measure, but there is little doubt the American prison system is savage by Western European/Scandinavian standards. But I don’t want a debate about American prisons (and it’s really a debate about American “justice” anyway, which the prison system is just a symptom of) - I just thought that was a good line to show that it’s probably far better to be in the bottom 0.5% in Germany than it is in the bottom 0.5% in the US.
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### Author:  [@Bartman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bartman)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2012, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/4 "2012-10-18T00:03:46Z")
5% or over about $150,000 annual income - That is where you are pretty safe. You can self insure to a degree. So that is where the need for a safety net begins to disappear. Anywhere below that and you are one bad day from ruin.
Above that the marginal tax becomes really significant, 45% iirc. So it seems like a good dividing line.
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### Author:  [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/5 "2012-10-18T00:04:51Z")
I honestly don’t know enough about Germany to be able to answer, but being in the bottom 0.7% of Americans probably isn’t objectively that bad if you are willing to take advantage of the various social safety nets that local city and state governments provide.
The main problem is that the bottom rung of society doesn’t want help, and refuses to take it.
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### Author:  [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2012, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/6 "2012-10-18T00:05:12Z")
I think your logic is extremely faulty and I haven’t voted in your poll.
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### Author:  [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/7 "2012-10-18T00:07:37Z")
Judging from when I visited Germany last about thirty years ago, I’d say they should get bigger refrigerators, and get all those cows off the highway embankments.
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/8 "2012-10-18T00:25:35Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#):
>
> “Evil” is an objective measure now?
Sure. You detect it with a Giger counter.
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### Author:  [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/9 "2012-10-18T00:41:18Z")
French prisons are bad; I wouldn’t want to be in either. Overpopulated, ethnically biased, dangerous. Sounds like I wouldn’t want to be in Italy’s legal system, either. Depending on what western means, I am pretty sure Belarus’ prisons are out, or their anything for that matter.
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> Sure. You detect it with a Giger counter.
Eh… I bought one, but it wasn’t calibrated right or something. I couldn’t get it out of phallic extraterrestrial counting mode.
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### Author:  [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2012, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/10 "2012-10-18T00:44:35Z")
How could Bealrus possibly qualify as Western?
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### Author:  [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/11 "2012-10-18T00:51:36Z")
“In Europe.” “Not Asia.” “Indo-European.”
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### Author:  [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2012, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/12 "2012-10-18T00:57:54Z")
Having lived in both, but born and raised in the US I think it has a lot to do with what you have grown accustomed to. Germany for me while being more permissive in some respects was downright draconian in others. What do you mean I have to take a class and get certified to use a chainsaw in my own backyard? Germany was also more sensitive to social class and education. Not much room for a self made man. If you lacked the proper education credentials good luck getting that job. Germany used to offer the comfort of an assured retirement that would keep you in good stead and matched economically with your peers. My peers over there don’t have such a rosey outlook though. Lots of concern over the effects of reunification on the system paralleling my concerns of the effects of boomers on SSI.
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### Author:  [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/13 "2012-10-18T01:01:14Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#):
>
> I think it’s probably true to say that if you’re in the top 0.1% of the US, you are probably in the best country in the world.
>
> I think it’s also very true to say that if you’re in the bottom 0.7% of the US, you are probably in the worst western country. Because you are in prison in probably the most evil developed country’s prison system.
>
> So somewhere between these two points, the US has to become better than Germany. I wonder at which point you would put it?
>
> Poll attached but am interested in your reasoning.
Have you lived in either country? I don’t know that anyone could really answer that unless they have. It would still be subjective though. There are things about Germany I love and things about the US that I love. I’m not sure, however, I’d feel either is the “best country in the world” for me.
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### Author:  [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/14 "2012-10-18T01:04:10Z")
No, although I have been to both on a few occasions. I kinda picked Germany for exactly that reason, it would be a bit too familiar if I chose a Nordic or British Isles country.
This is not a scientific poll and even if one has lived in both countries, it’s not as if one has lived all the percentiles in both countries.
Please just use what you think you know 🙂
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### Author:  [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/15 "2012-10-18T01:23:56Z")
Considering that in the United States I can wear a swastika and belong to the Nazi Party if I want to, but in Germany I cannot (no matter what percentile I’m in), I’d rather live in the United States of America.
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### Author:  [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2012, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/16 "2012-10-18T01:34:09Z")
Then vote “I think that you are always better off being in the US percentile”
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### Author:  [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/17 "2012-10-18T01:36:10Z")
I think one issue with Germany specifically (as opposed to any generic country with a more functional safety net) is that many of the people in the lower percentiles in the US probably wouldn’t be there had the educational system not allowed them to fall between the cracks. There are a lot of able-bodied and reasonably bright poor people in the US who in a German style system would have been pushed towards the trades and likely a perfectly comfortable middle class income. Conversely, someone with a high-demand job in the trades in Germany might be nominally better off in the US in terms of income and taxation, but they wouldn’t have wound up in that position had they grown up in the US.
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### Author:  [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/18 "2012-10-18T01:59:56Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#):
>
> Then vote “I think that you are always better off being in the US percentile”
But I think that just because I’d rather live in the US than Germany, it doesn’t really address the spirit of your question, which I find rather difficult to answer because I don’t know that much about Germany.
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### Author:  [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/19 "2012-10-18T02:11:21Z")
I didn’t vote because I couldn’t make sense of the question either. I like Germany today just fine as country and it would be a top pick if I spoke German or had to relocate out of the U.S. for some reason with an American company.
However, I don’t like the instability of the Eurozone these days even if Germany is one of the few stable countries propping the whole mess up. I think the U.S. has much better long-term prospects than any Western European country.
There is a great deal of freedom of movement in the U.S. that is less severe than moving to any other country even if your prospects aren’t great. I have seen some rural trailer parks where people have a thriving (trashy) culture and seem to be perfectly fine with that.
People can move to North Dakota today and find a job easilyvfor insane money within the U.S. as long as they abandon everything they have. That is easier than being stuck in any European country where almost everything is in slow motion collapse.
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### Author:  [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/20 "2012-10-18T02:19:44Z")
The question as worded is meaningless. I didn’t vote.
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