# At what percentile do you think the US becomes better than Germany? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 17, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080 "2012-10-17T23:48:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/21 "2012-10-18T02:24:38Z")
It is saddening me that most people don’t seem to understand what I am saying. I appreciate this is entirely my fault, if it is anyone’s fault at all, but it’s still a pity. Could some kind person who does understand what I am asking please translate me? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/22 "2012-10-18T02:40:22Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > It is saddening me that most people don’t seem to understand what I am saying. We understand what you are trying to say, but it’s pretty meaningless unless you put some sort of definitions and educate the voting public on conditions in the US and Germany. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/23 "2012-10-18T02:52:35Z")
I can explain it, but I still have no idea how to vote. But I have visited Germany fairly often and like it a lot! Oh fine, I’ll explain it. Take every German and score him or her from 0 to 99 on the scale of “that’s the life I’d like to lead!” using whatever standard you want. Now do the same for Amis. Next rank order each country’s scores and bundle individuals into percentile groups. Graph the unit percentiles for each country against some score representing your assignment of quality of life as described above. The country lines will cross, posits the OP. Where? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/24 "2012-10-18T02:58:19Z")
I can’t make sense of the question either so I didn’t vote. I lived in Germany for two years. Nice place but their plumbing sucked. USA! USA! ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/25 "2012-10-18T03:05:57Z")
As a WAG, I assume people in the US pay about 30% of their income in taxes (state, federal, local) in household incomes of 50k a year or more. In Germany I would assume it is closer to 40% for households. However a social welfare state like germany has (as far as I know) universal health care that can never be taken away because of job loss or poverty, subsidized day care, lower cost/free college, six weeks of paid vacation a year, paid family medical leave, etc. Those things have to be taken into account. In Sicko Michael Moore was talking to Americans who moved to France, one said that as a French citizen she got benefits her parents worked their whole life for in America and never got. So doing the calculation of when does paying an extra 10% of your income in taxes (40% instead of 30%, I am assuming) stop being worth the health care, day care, higher education, extra vacation, etc. I would guess around 200k a year household income. Those benefits are worth 20k a year. If your income is from capital and you get income from dividends, capital gains, etc then the US is going to be better. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/26 "2012-10-18T03:10:21Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > It is saddening me that most people don’t seem to understand what I am saying. I appreciate this is entirely my fault, if it is anyone’s fault at all, but it’s still a pity. > > Could some kind person who does understand what I am asking please translate me? In soviet russia, percentile better you ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/27 "2012-10-18T03:12:11Z")
Simple Linctus, did you even want us to consider intangible freedoms/rights? Or was this purely economics? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/28 "2012-10-18T05:07:49Z")
I voted based on intangibles not pure economics. (I voted Deutchland Uber Alles, BTW) Being a schengen country is the big win. Plus, castles. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/29 "2012-10-18T05:27:26Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > Having lived in both, but born and raised in the US I think it has a lot to do with what you have grown accustomed to. Germany for me while being more permissive in some respects was downright draconian in others. What do you mean I have to take a class and get certified to use a chainsaw in my own backyard? Germany was also more sensitive to social class and education. Not much room for a self made man. If you lacked the proper education credentials good luck getting that job. Germany used to offer the comfort of an assured retirement that would keep you in good stead and matched economically with your peers. My peers over there don’t have such a rosey outlook though. Lots of concern over the effects of reunification on the system paralleling my concerns of the effects of boomers on SSI. YES^ This was exactly my experience, people look at me crazy as they think everyone in Germany is drinking vodka all day and going to prostitutes when they aren’t at the casino. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/30 "2012-10-18T05:42:23Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > French prisons are bad; I wouldn’t want to be in either. Overpopulated, ethnically biased, dangerous. Sounds like I wouldn’t want to be in Italy’s legal system, either. Depending on what western means, I am pretty sure Belarus’ prisons are out, or their anything for that matter. And you definitely don’t ever want to be sent to a Japanese prison. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/31 "2012-10-18T06:31:04Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > We understand what you are trying to say, but it’s pretty meaningless unless you put some sort of definitions and educate the voting public on conditions in the US and Germany. I disagree. I don’t think anyone can understand because I think the OP doesn’t really understand what he wants. Is being among the top 1% (of _something_) in Germany better than being among the top 10% (of something) in America? Is being among the top 10% in America being better than the top 40% in Germany? There is no way to make sense out of this, at least in a way where everyone is answering the same question. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/32 "2012-10-18T06:35:08Z")
I think he is asking whether you’d rather be desperately poor in the USA or desperately poor in Germany. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/33 "2012-10-18T06:37:46Z")
Or incredibly rich in either country. Or middle class in either country. Or sadomasochists in either country, for that matter, if sadomasochism can be put on a graduated scale. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/34 "2012-10-18T06:44:16Z")
I think the problem with this is how you define better, every person is so unique that it is hard to compare unless you’ve actually lived somewhere. AND every country is so unique and hard to judge based on facts, the real life reality can very different. It might not be so bad living under the rule of King Tyrant(hypothetical) as long as you don’t have a bug up your ass about challenging him. I mean hey doesn’t Britain still ban the sales of certain movies?! Well I guess it doesn’t matter anymore with the internet and such, but hey back in the day thats pretty annoying. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/35 "2012-10-18T12:16:57Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Plus, castles. Ok you are convincing me. Actually I loved Germany. But it wasn’t home. If I was exiled from my country I wouldn’t mind living there. But this is home. I would never be completely comfortable any where else. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/36 "2012-10-18T13:14:00Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Considering that in the United States I can wear a swastika and belong to the Nazi Party if I want to, but in Germany I cannot (no matter what percentile I’m in), I’d rather live in the United States of America. um…ok. Good luck with all that. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/37 "2012-10-18T17:55:22Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > um…ok. Good luck with all that. In case you haven’t gotten to know me on these boards, I’m a gay liberal. I would never actually wear a swastika or join the Nazi Party. But I love living in a country where my government hasn’t made it illegal to do so. ---
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/38 "2012-10-18T18:20:27Z")
Are you asking at what percentile, meaning, for example, I’d rather be in the U.S. at or above the 10% versus the 10% of Germany, or is it versus the bottom 0.1% Germany or is it versus the average 50% Germany? Is the average Germany good compared to the average U.S.? I haven’t lived in Germany, so I’m not sure how to vote. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/39 "2012-10-18T18:52:19Z")
I did not vote, as your ranges are too broad. I think we need more specific data points. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080/40 "2012-10-18T18:57:06Z")
I think that you are always better off being in the US percentile. Not sure what that was intended to mean, but this is my country, and by definition better than all the rest. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-percentile-do-you-think-the-us-becomes-better-than-germany/638080.md?page=3)