# At what point do you call the cops with nothing but a vauge suspicion? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 15, 2005, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-do-you-call-the-cops-with-nothing-but-a-vauge-suspicion/321787 "2005-09-15T14:52:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-do-you-call-the-cops-with-nothing-but-a-vauge-suspicion/321787/81 "2005-09-19T18:24:54Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Yes. A victim of murder, not drugs. There wpold have been no murder had there been no drug deal. The two are inseparable. He was a victim of a drug deal gone bad. > [@DtC](#): > > Pleas take note: I said that WEED does not have a victim, not that no drugs do. Please do not make the simplistic mistake of grouping all drugs into the same category You are the only one assuming that the people in the OP are dealing weed, if anything. Let’s say it’s heroin. Does that change anything? > [@DtC](#): > > Yes and yes. Fascinating. Do you then feel that one should only respect the laws with which one agrees? > [@DtC](#): > > None, because it’s not relevant. The OP has seen no violence, nor does she actually know that drugs are being dealt in the first place. You’re extropolating from extropolations. The cites were responding to your assertion that drug dealing doesn’t hurt anyone. It is implicit in that assertion that drug dealing is happening. > [@DtC](#): > > I seriously doubt it. Perhaps I was unclear. What I meant was that in my experience, drug dealing can lead to violence. That fact trumps your experience that drug dealers make great neighbors. > [@](#): > > I can conclude that drug dealers aren’t _necessarily_ dangerous and should be given the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. Especially if it’s only weed. You are the only one claiming that it is only weed. The facts are inesacapale. Where there is more drug dealing, there is more crime. When the drug dealing goes away, the crime rate falls. > [@DtC](#): > > I fail to see how this is analogous. It is analagous because of your claim that drug dealers make great neighbors, based on your personal experience. I might as well claim that drunks make great drivers, based on my experience that I have driven drunk numerous times and never harmed anyone. I doubt that the set of {Drug dealing neighbors of **Diogenes** } is sufficiently large to be considered a fair sample. > [@DtC](#): > > As long as they’re not bothering me, I don’t care. People have the right to do whatever drugs they want. So if you lived next door to a meth lab, that would be OK with you. As long as it didn’t explode. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-do-you-call-the-cops-with-nothing-but-a-vauge-suspicion/321787/82 "2005-09-19T18:27:54Z")
I think **DtC** is right\*. Unless they are either blatantly participating in illegal activity or being disruptive, I tend to just let people be. And how people stretch from “there are some guys across the street and I’m not sure what they’re doing.” to “Oh noes the guns and violence” I can’t figure out. \*hurts so bad to say. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-do-you-call-the-cops-with-nothing-but-a-vauge-suspicion/321787/83 "2005-09-19T18:30:30Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > Oh really? Bully for you. My brother lived next door to “nice guy” dealers. Wonderful chaps. Then one day someone came looking for the “nice guys” with waepons and went to the wrong apartment. Waved guns at my brother and his friends while they vapor-locked trying to figure out what to do next. Luckily they left instead of getting rid of witnesses. > > Too bad if you think drug dealing is a victimless crime. Tell that to all the families of people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time - just “minding their business” when the stray bullets flew. > > Grow up. > > Some things are worth being investigated. If there’s a suspicion of illegal activity it should be reported. If someone busts into your house with guns, by all means, call the police. The crime in your brother’s house was home invasion, and terrorism, not drug dealing. By the way, cops have been known to bust into the wrong house and terrorize people with guns too, you know. Oftentimes it’s because they got a bad tip. Moreover, I feel like I have to point out that in the case of the OP, there IS no evdience of illegal activity. When I have never seen a neighbor commit a crime AND, that neighbor isn’t bothering me (or anyone else, for the sophists in the crowd), then my general rule of thumb is not to call the cops on them. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-do-you-call-the-cops-with-nothing-but-a-vauge-suspicion/321787/84 "2005-09-19T18:38:10Z")
But what constitutes “bothering”, DtC? Zsofia feels there’s something wrong. You cannot claim her feelings are invalid, just because in the same situation you wouldn’t give a shit. Police can act on suspicion (much to your dismay I’m sure). ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-do-you-call-the-cops-with-nothing-but-a-vauge-suspicion/321787/85 "2005-09-19T18:42:32Z")
> [@Bruce\_Daddy](#): > > I think **DtC** is right\*. Unless they are either blatantly participating in illegal activity or being disruptive, I tend to just let people be. And how people stretch from “there are some guys across the street and I’m not sure what they’re doing.” to “Oh noes the guns and violence” I can’t figure out. > > \*hurts so bad to say. > [@the OP](#): > > There’s a whole lot of people who seem to be living/staying there, for one thing. They’re kinda loud. There’s cars driving up at all hours of the day or night, and nobody really seems to get out of their car - they honk the horn (GRR!) or maybe call on a cel or something, because people sort of come out of the house and they talk and then the other people drive off. This is absolutely the desription of activity that would be taking place if drug dealing were going on. It is not proof. How exactly would a citizen obtain proof of drug dealing sufficient for you to call the police? Read my cites above. Drug dealing is a violent activity. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-do-you-call-the-cops-with-nothing-but-a-vauge-suspicion/321787/86 "2005-09-19T18:44:31Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Moreover, I feel like I have to point out that in the case of the OP, there IS no evdience of illegal activity. When I have never seen a neighbor commit a crime AND, that neighbor isn’t bothering me (or anyone else, for the sophists in the crowd), then my general rule of thumb is not to call the cops on them. The OP didn’t claim evidence of illegal activity, only suspicious activity. The neighbors are certainly free to act like drug dealers, but they shouldn’t be surprised when that behavior attracts attention. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-do-you-call-the-cops-with-nothing-but-a-vauge-suspicion/321787/87 "2005-09-19T18:46:21Z")
It’s not a citizen’s job to investigate her neighbors. If you see a crime, call the cops. If you don’t , don’t. It doesn’t sound like the OP has seen anything illegal and it doesn’t sound like they’re bugging anyone. That adds up to zero reason to call Five-O on them. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-do-you-call-the-cops-with-nothing-but-a-vauge-suspicion/321787/88 "2005-09-19T18:53:21Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > But what constitutes “bothering”, DtC? Doing something that interferes with another person’s rights? Threatening them, stealing from them, parking in their yard? The OP said she never even noticed these people until the painter pointed them out to her. They can’t have been too bothersome. > [@](#): > > Zsofia feels there’s something wrong. You cannot claim her feelings are invalid, just because in the same situation you wouldn’t give a shit. Well, she asked for other people’s opinions, didn’t she. This IS the opinion forum. I’m giving my opinion. Police can act on suspicion (much to your dismay I’m sure). [/QUOTE] I never said they couldn’t. I’m just statimg my OPINION that people should try a little harder to leave each other alone. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-do-you-call-the-cops-with-nothing-but-a-vauge-suspicion/321787/89 "2005-09-19T18:59:48Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > It’s not a citizen’s job to investigate her neighbors. If you see a crime, call the cops. If you don’t , don’t. > > It doesn’t sound like the OP has seen anything illegal and it doesn’t sound like they’re bugging anyone. That adds up to zero reason to call Five-O on them. How about if you hear gunfire? Or the sound of someone sceraming in fear? You haven’t _seen_ anything then either, and there could be a perfectly innocent explanation. Perhaps the TV was too loud, or maybe it was a car backfiring. Suppose someone murders someone and leves the corpse rotting in their backyard under a tarp. You can smell death, but have witnessed nothing illegal. Should you call the cops in that case? This idea that an illegal act must be witnessed before the police are notified is a mystifying one. > [@DtC](#): > > (for the sophists in the crowd), Where is the sophistry in claiming that bad behavior should be punished even if it does not directly affect oneself? ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-do-you-call-the-cops-with-nothing-but-a-vauge-suspicion/321787/90 "2005-09-19T19:02:28Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > It’s not a citizen’s job to investigate her neighbors. Nobody’s saying that she should “investigate her neighbors.” We’re just saying that she should call the cops, so that THEY can investigate. > [@](#): > > If you see a crime, call the cops. If you don’t , don’t. Nonsense, for reasons that **Contrapuntal** already covered. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-do-you-call-the-cops-with-nothing-but-a-vauge-suspicion/321787/91 "2005-09-19T19:03:17Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > It’s not a citizen’s job to investigate her neighbors. If you see a crime, call the cops. If you don’t , don’t. > > It doesn’t sound like the OP has seen anything illegal and it doesn’t sound like they’re bugging anyone. That adds up to zero reason to call Five-O on them. As long as she is not calling the cops on you, what the hell do you care? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-do-you-call-the-cops-with-nothing-but-a-vauge-suspicion/321787/92 "2005-09-19T19:07:43Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > How about if you hear gunfire? Or the sound of someone sceraming in fear? You haven’t _seen_ anything then either, and there could be a perfectly innocent explanation. Perhaps the TV was too loud, or maybe it was a car backfiring. > > Suppose someone murders someone and leves the corpse rotting in their backyard under a tarp. You can smell death, but have witnessed nothing illegal. Should you call the cops in that case? Those would all be cases where the observed evidence is far more alarming than what **Zsofia** has witnessed, which is nothing. > [@](#): > > This idea that an illegal act must be witnessed before the police are notified is a mystifying one. We’re talking about combing the lack of a witnessed illegal act with the lack of EVIDENCE for an illegal act, as well as the lack of any behavior which bothers anyone else. > [@](#): > > Where is the sophistry in claiming that bad behavior should be punished even if it does not directly affect oneself? The sophistry was in seizing upon the phrase “they’re not bothering me” as some sort of statement that I wouldn’t care if the bothered anyone else. I never said that. The OP has not seen _any_ “bad behavour” towards herself or anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-do-you-call-the-cops-with-nothing-but-a-vauge-suspicion/321787/93 "2005-09-19T19:10:01Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > As long as she is not calling the cops on you, what the hell do you care? > > Regards, > Shodan You’ll have to explain this to me. I fail to see a point. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-do-you-call-the-cops-with-nothing-but-a-vauge-suspicion/321787/94 "2005-09-19T19:32:15Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > You’ll have to explain this to me. I fail to see a point. You said, and I quote, that even if they were dealing drugs; > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > As long as they’re not bothering me, I don’t care. **Zsofia** ’s call to the cops for her possibly drug-dealing neighbors doesn’t affect you either. So why don’t you just mind your own business and not complain about it? ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-do-you-call-the-cops-with-nothing-but-a-vauge-suspicion/321787/95 "2005-09-19T19:40:02Z")
Well played, **Shodan**. Well played. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-do-you-call-the-cops-with-nothing-but-a-vauge-suspicion/321787/96 "2005-09-19T19:42:57Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Those would all be cases where the observed evidence is far more alarming than what **Zsofia** has witnessed, which is nothing. > > We’re talking about combing the lack of a witnessed illegal act with the lack of EVIDENCE for an illegal act, as well as the lack of any behavior which bothers anyone else. Unless you are using some non-standard definition for “see” you now seem to have backed away from this statement, in particular the last sentence, which I would rephrase as “If you don’t see a crime, don’t call the cops.” _“If you see a crime, call the cops. If you don’t , don’t.”_ In none of my examples is anything seen, yet you believe there is sufficient reason to involve the police. > [@Dio](#): > > The sophistry was in seizing upon the phrase “they’re not bothering me” as some sort of statement that I wouldn’t care if the bothered anyone else. I never said that. The OP has not seen _any_ “bad behavour” towards herself or anyone else. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-do-you-call-the-cops-with-nothing-but-a-vauge-suspicion/321787/97 "2005-09-19T19:58:19Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You said, and I quote, that even if they were dealing drugs; > **Zsofia** ’s call to the cops for her possibly drug-dealing neighbors doesn’t affect you either. So why don’t you just mind your own business and not complain about it? I’ve already dealt with this asinine bit of sophistry. The people in the OP aren’t bothering ANYBODY. If they were bothering ANYBODY, I would say call the cops. They aren’t. I haven’t narrowed the conditions for which I would call the police to whether the situation affected me and only me, so you have no point. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-do-you-call-the-cops-with-nothing-but-a-vauge-suspicion/321787/98 "2005-09-19T20:13:51Z")
> [@d1a1s1](#): > > Since when is looking at someones house an invasion of privacy? If you are the type of person that feels someone looking at your house, in a neighborhood, an invasion of privacy then I would think they wouldnt live in a NEIGHBORHOOD! Take your cats and move to a remote area of Montana with all the other invasion of privacy “lunatics” We’re not talking about someone LOOKING at your house. We’re talking about authority figures being asked to do more than the usual patrol because a busy-body thinks basketball = drug dealing. That is, if the police aren’t on the ground in hysterics in response to her call. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-do-you-call-the-cops-with-nothing-but-a-vauge-suspicion/321787/99 "2005-09-19T20:26:19Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > If she saw weapons, packages trading hands, or works laying all over the sidewalk, that’s one thing. She’s seen NOTHING. She’s got as much cause to suspect them of dealing drugs as they’ve got of assuming she’s running a brothel. It’s funny you should mention that, as the girl a few houses down told me the house across the street from her _was_ busted as a brothel a few years back, before she moved in. 🙂 (I swear, it is NOT that kind of neighborhood!) The reason I started this thread to begin with is that I was deeply concerned about violating anybody’s privacy! I’m a librarian - I do more to protect your privacy before 9 AM than most people do all day! If that hadn’t been an issue I’d have called the cops with no hesitations, but obviously it _is_ an issue. Obviously it’s difficult to convey the overtones of suspicious behavior like this, and it sounds silly when I’m all “There’s a lot of people around, and there’s ball playing.” But doesn’t tone count for anything? It’s _suspicious_ ball playing. I’m not stupid, I’m not even a very paranoid person. Something about what’s going on across the street _does not seem right to me_. That’s why they call it “suspicious”. (For all I know they called the cops on _me_ for my slightly loudish party a few nights ago, where I stood with a drink in hand on the city property of a sidewalk, ooh!) The real reason I called the cops isn’t because I expected them to go over there and question them; I don’t even really think they’d drive by. I called them because if there’s a file already, I want to add to it. There is no way in hell that my report of suspicious ball playing is going to result in anybody’s door getting knocked down unless it’s combined with something else, duh. I understand the position of the respondants who think you shouldn’t call unless you see an actual crime, and who think I’m a snoop. I posted the OP because I was afraid I was maybe being a bit of a snoop. I _don’t_ understand those who honestly seem to think that even if people are **dealing smack across the street** I should ignore it and mind my own business. And then when other people say “Hey, you know, crime does tend to follow heroin…” to try to defend the point? Sure, I’m sure there are college dorm pot dealers who won’t ever commit any other crime than pot dealing, and some of their customers would never commit any crime but pot buying. But I think the vast majority of drug dealing does tend to go hand in hand with crime - theft, violence, stray bullets! If I came here and said “The people across the street are gang members involved in a major drug ring” would you say “Well, you won’t catch any lead if you weren’t looking out your window to start with, you nosy paranoid rat!” Maybe they’re doing nothing. I hope they’re doing nothing! But I just have a bad feeling about them - something over there is nudging my alarm switches. So I called them in. And I am not under the impression that it’s ever ethical or appropriate to say “Well, if they don’t have anything to hide they should have nothing to fear”, but at the same time I deserve to be safe in my own home and if I assess the risk that follows from innocent people being scrutinized as less than the risk that follows if nobody reports actual criminals, I’m damned well going to make the decision to call. This isn’t a black and white issue; you have to balance their right to privacy to my right to safety. Would I want the cops checking up on me if I engaged in “suspicious behavior”? Hell no. But I also don’t want to see anybody harmed by illegal activity in my neighborhood, particularly myself. I’m not entirely happy with my decision but I think it was the correct one in this situation. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-do-you-call-the-cops-with-nothing-but-a-vauge-suspicion/321787/100 "2005-09-19T20:40:04Z")
**Zsofia** is perfectly right to call the cops to report behaviour that _may_ be criminal. As has been pointed out, it isn’t her job to investigate crime, it’s the cops. Contrary to the believe of **Diogenes the Anarchist** , a citizen has the right and responsibility to report activity to the police before murders take place, before children starve to death, before the meth lab blows up. A “wait until after the felony has occurred” attitude causes everyone a lot of grief. Why not catch it while it’s a misdemeanor, or before the worst-case scenario happens? If a crime isn’t happening, the police will investigate and leave. StG [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-do-you-call-the-cops-with-nothing-but-a-vauge-suspicion/321787.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-do-you-call-the-cops-with-nothing-but-a-vauge-suspicion/321787.md?page=6)