# At what point does a grownup not doing grownup things seem strange to you? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 26, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-a-grownup-not-doing-grownup-things-seem-strange-to-you/586921 "2011-06-26T18:10:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-a-grownup-not-doing-grownup-things-seem-strange-to-you/586921/61 "2011-06-27T15:31:52Z")
> [@Jaledin](#): > > I don’t get it – if so many places in the US are unlivable without driving, why would someone who doesn’t want to waste a bunch of cash and probably mutilate themselves and others (and create significant noise pollution) choose to live in such a place? > > Tangent, and OT, I know, but I’m really curious. I always thought people who chose to live in the sticks did so because they liked it, and weren’t just trying to slide one in on the sneak. What’s their angle? Are they just chickenshit to move someplace more suitable to their preference? Or just plain freeloading assholes? What’s their story? Around here, public transit is for 3 groups: 1. those unable to drive for medical reasons (elderly, mentally handicapped) 2. university students 3. what most people define as ‘unsavory’ types University students only take the bus because parking on campus is too expensive. Most people still own a car or live with someone who does. My province has grown out of rural farming communities. I mean, in 1900, we weren’t using San Francisco street cars, we were using horses and wagons. Cars are just an update on that concept. You couldn’t always rely on a neighbour to get what supplies you needed when they went to the general store and you sure as hell couldn’t walk, so you needed your own transportation. We’re slowly moving from rural communities to urban centres and public transit is slowly getting better, but we’ll always have a relatively spread out population. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-a-grownup-not-doing-grownup-things-seem-strange-to-you/586921/62 "2011-06-27T15:36:05Z")
> [@Sierra\_Indigo](#): > > I find people who are driven to paroxysms of fear by the thought of and/or completely unable to navigate their local area without the aid of a car to be less “adult” than those who don’t own a car over a certain arbitrary age point. That’s really a function of geography. I don’t exactly live in suburbia, but the public transit in my area is a joke, and the layout of the city is such that walking–or even biking–is flat-out dangerous. If you live in a dense, urban part of the city and have a home close to your work, you can do without a car. Otherwise, not so much. If I lost my car today and was somehow prevented from buying another one, it would be rough. What I’m trying to say is that in my part of town, “no car” = hopelessly dependent. My friend in San Francisco, on the other hand, is utterly independent without an auto. It really depends on your situation. > [@Ibanez](#): > > Was at his mothers place in her back yard sitting around talking with some other people, he saunders in plops his ass down on a swinging lawn-couch thinging, lies down takes out his crack-berry and entertains himself because sitting with the adults is boring. My sister went over to him said whatever to him and he begrudgingly came and sat with us. Poor muffin. > > That’s non-adult behaviour. Hmmm. In my set, if someone steps away from the group to text, they’re usually taking care of some problem. I guess I see what you’re saying, but texting isn’t necessarily immature behavior. Of course, I have some extreme stories, but that’s another thread. > [@Gatopescado](#): > > I don’t trust adult men that don’t drink beer. 😃 Well, I guess I’m thoroughly untrustworthy. Then again, I’m also the usual designated driver, so I guess someone trusts me. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-a-grownup-not-doing-grownup-things-seem-strange-to-you/586921/63 "2011-06-27T15:36:27Z")
I’d say the inability to adequately control one’s taco consumption isn’t very adult like. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Tyger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Silver\_Tyger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Tyger)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-a-grownup-not-doing-grownup-things-seem-strange-to-you/586921/64 "2011-06-27T15:37:35Z")
Do those people without IDs not have a social security card (or local equivalent)? Because I can see not having a driver’s license or state ID card, but not having a ssn I think would be unusual. And to actually answer the question asked, I’d say not being self-sufficient (or trying, and I’m including student loans / scholarships in here) at 30 is strange. I don’t think not being in a relationship, not having sex, not having a car, or choosing to live with family necessarily makes you immature (although the last two may be symptoms). But I may be biased because I have little interest in the first two and live with my parents so I can get my debt down to a reasonable level. (I have a car and it’s paid off, and I did live on my own) ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-a-grownup-not-doing-grownup-things-seem-strange-to-you/586921/65 "2011-06-27T16:12:57Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > But if someone who is _able_ to live on their own _chooses_ to live with his/her parents that actually might be _more_ adult than rushing out to get his/her “own place” to prove adulthood. > > So… living with parents to save money, or to take care of a disabled family member, or to reduce costs while going to college, and so forth is actually a logical decision and NOT a sign of immaturity. Only “take care of disabled family member” could be considered “adult”. “Saving money”, and “going to college” are not signs of adulthood. It is a sign of being a dependent who is preparing for adulthood. > [@StusBlues](#): > > Well, I guess I’m thoroughly untrustworthy. Then again, I’m also the usual designated driver, so I guess someone trusts me. Trusting a sober person to find their way home at night without smashing into somthing? Way to set the bar high on trust. Riding shotgun in Ryan Dunn’s Porsche after a night out drinking shows real trust. > [@Jaledin](#): > > Tangent, and OT, I know, but I’m really curious. I always thought people who chose to live in the sticks did so because they liked it, and weren’t just trying to slide one in on the sneak. What’s their angle? Are they just chickenshit to move someplace more suitable to their preference? Or just plain freeloading assholes? What’s their story? Well, I would think that the reason people choose to live in the sticks is because they don’t like the cost, crowds and competition of the big city. ---
**Author:** ![Jaledin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jaledin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaledin)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-a-grownup-not-doing-grownup-things-seem-strange-to-you/586921/66 "2011-06-27T16:21:57Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Well, I would think that the reason people choose to live in the sticks is because they don’t like the cost, crowds and competition of the big city. Well, knock me over with a feather. I understand the appeal of country living or suburban living, but I can’t figure beyond laziness or wastitude why someone would choose to live “there” without being able to support their lifestyle, in terms of transportation, which is a substantial expense, I’m sure, regardless of location within the US. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-a-grownup-not-doing-grownup-things-seem-strange-to-you/586921/67 "2011-06-27T16:31:38Z")
The expense of transportation isn’t necessarily that substantial, when you account for the (usually) increased cost of city living. Even a fairly nice new car may only cost $400-500/mo, all expenses included, city rent is likely going to be that much more than suburb rent, and you still have to pay for public transportation. Once the car is paid off, or if you buy used, the costs are significantly less. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-a-grownup-not-doing-grownup-things-seem-strange-to-you/586921/68 "2011-06-27T16:52:15Z")
> [@Jaledin](#): > > Well, knock me over with a feather. I understand the appeal of country living or suburban living, but I can’t figure beyond laziness or wastitude why someone would choose to live “there” without being able to support their lifestyle, in terms of transportation, which is a substantial expense, I’m sure, regardless of location within the US. Other than the Amish and teenagers who didn’t really have much choice where they were raised, I’m not aware of many people who move outside public transport range without a car or something. As far as I know, humans have never lived places they can’t get to where they need to get to. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-a-grownup-not-doing-grownup-things-seem-strange-to-you/586921/69 "2011-06-27T17:01:46Z")
I tend to think a lot of being grown-up has to do with the sort of image you have of yourself/try to project. Like I have a brother-in-law who loves to brag about how much he drinks, how fucked up he gets, etc. At 22, it was just being a normal blow-hard. At 30, it really makes him look like a man-boy. I know plenty of heavy drinkers and even alcoholics who I think of as “adult”, but the way he takes this pride in getting fucked up, without any irony at all, seems astoundingly immature to me. He also seems to take a lot of pride in being reckless and impulsive, and will brag about wacky adventures he and his friends had (often while intoxicated). Again, a 22 year old thinking their poor judgment is somehow admirable is not unheard of. A 30 year old doing the same drives me crazy. And this is a guy who meets most of the other standards of adulthood discussed here. But he seems to be the least adult 30-something I know. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-a-grownup-not-doing-grownup-things-seem-strange-to-you/586921/70 "2011-06-27T17:31:05Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > For example, living at home _because you have to_, being _unable_ to live on your own, it not adult. But if someone who is _able_ to live on their own _chooses_ to live with his/her parents that actually might be _more_ adult than rushing out to get his/her “own place” to prove adulthood. What? Refusing to man up and pay bills while sponging off your parents because it’ll save you a buck is a clear-cut case of needing to grow the hell up. I could easily live with my parents in a pretty sweet town (LA) without all of the expenses, and would have a nice wad of extra spending money in my pocket every month with what I’ve said on rent, but I’d also be living with mommy and daddy. I don’t do this because I’m not a little fucking baby. Learn to budget, work harder, get a better job, figure out how to make ends meet on your own. Their parents --you know, the actual grown ups these losers are sponging off-- have figured it out. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-a-grownup-not-doing-grownup-things-seem-strange-to-you/586921/71 "2011-06-27T17:33:01Z")
As to the why of how this is happening to so many kids these days, I can speak to that. My mother was controlling, and attempted to infantilize both me and my sister. I had a part-time job in high school (within walking/biking distance), and every cent went into a joint savings account. I wasn’t allowed to withdraw a dime without justifying it to her. She didn’t want me to go to college even though I was valedictorian and got offered a full ride at a state school (yes, I took it against her wishes and despite her efforts at sabotage). When my dad got me a car for my 16th birthday, she wouldn’t let me drive it (it was appropriated by my stepfather, though… hooray. My dad wasn’t my custodial parent so he didn’t have any say over what happened at home). I couldn’t get a driver’s license until I was out of her house because it would make her insurance go up too much. Once I established my own legal residence (and financial independence; if not on paper then in spirit–I was living off grants and loans) in college, at age 20, the first thing I did was get my driver’s license. And my dad handed me down another car to drive. I’m currently doing okay by adult standards, I rent a room and make car payments and work full time, I’ve had sex, all that jazz. But I’m sure my mom isn’t the only one out there who wanted her twee babies to stay in the nest forever. ---
**Author:** ![Jaledin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jaledin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaledin)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-a-grownup-not-doing-grownup-things-seem-strange-to-you/586921/72 "2011-06-27T17:47:02Z")
That’s an edifying, and somewhat harrowing (in parts) story, **Rachelell**. I was thinking yesterday, or maybe it was a dream, that it’s a miracle I never had to ask my mother for anything financially (I still value her advice for some topics), because she can be a bit…difficult. She likes to pull the strings, and I like to pull my own strings, and did it from financing private school HS through college through grad school through being a little man-child screwing around trying to earn a decent living off plinking out black and whites on an 88 or 61. I don’t really like to pry, but \ I must, I must \ – how did you mend your relationship with your mother, anyway? I imagine the instinct to “nurture” and, perhaps, “enable” is a universal trait among mutterers. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-a-grownup-not-doing-grownup-things-seem-strange-to-you/586921/73 "2011-06-27T17:55:41Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > What? Refusing to man up and pay bills while sponging off your parents because it’ll save you a buck is a clear-cut case of needing to grow the hell up. I could easily live with my parents in a pretty sweet town (LA) without all of the expenses, and would have a nice wad of extra spending money in my pocket every month with what I’ve said on rent, but I’d also be living with mommy and daddy. I don’t do this because I’m not a little fucking baby. Learn to budget, work harder, get a better job, figure out how to make ends meet on your own. Their parents --you know, the actual grown ups these losers are sponging off-- have figured it out. What a load of bullshit. Living at home after college does not, by default, make someone less of an adult. You can call it “prolonging adolescence” all you want, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is a smart play for a lot of adults (the parents and their post-college children). Especially today. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-a-grownup-not-doing-grownup-things-seem-strange-to-you/586921/74 "2011-06-27T18:04:37Z")
Have it your way. Freeloading is “smart” and not “immature.” ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-a-grownup-not-doing-grownup-things-seem-strange-to-you/586921/75 "2011-06-27T18:07:37Z")
> [@Jaledin](#): > > She likes to pull the strings, and I like to pull my own strings, and did it from financing private school HS through college through grad school through being a little man-child screwing around trying to earn a decent living off plinking out black and whites on an 88 or 61. What? ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-a-grownup-not-doing-grownup-things-seem-strange-to-you/586921/76 "2011-06-27T18:26:40Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > What? Playing piano. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-a-grownup-not-doing-grownup-things-seem-strange-to-you/586921/77 "2011-06-27T18:47:20Z")
I grew up in a small to medium size town (less than a 100,000). The closest large city was about 2 hours away. Almost all of my friends and myself got their learner’s permits when turning 15, and then getting our driver’s license when we turned 16. I now live in a larger city 400,000-500,000 metropolitan area, but not one with a good mass transit system. My son just turned 16. I expected him to be chomping at the bit to get his learner’s permit at age 15. But I had to push him to get it. He will get his full license in a few weeks. Only one of his friends that he hangs out with, out of about 15-20, has his license. The rest never got their learner’s permit and are interested in getting their driver’s license. They all rely on their parents to cart them around. Most of them are active in their school and are involved in extra-cirricular activities. They rely on their parents for transportation. I have been at a quandry as to why this group of kids don’t want to drive themselves, We bought my son a 10 year old used car. Basic transportation with air conditioning, to get him to/from school, to/from work, to/from extra-cirricular activities. We are only getting the state required liability insurance on the car, and that alone will be approximately $1,400 a year. That would be cost of liability insurance for my car with just having him as a driver in the family. Since he will be primarily driving his own car, my liability coverage won’t go up. This leads me to the conclusion that most kids are waiting (or their parents are wanting them to wait) to get their licenses due to the high cost of liablity insurance. Not that surprising. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-a-grownup-not-doing-grownup-things-seem-strange-to-you/586921/78 "2011-06-27T19:13:11Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > What a load of bullshit. Living at home after college does not, by default, make someone less of an adult. You can call it “prolonging adolescence” all you want, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is a smart play for a lot of adults (the parents and their post-college children). Especially today. If you have a job and are living at home, you should be paying rent to your parents. If you are not, you are still not independant (and therefore less grown up in my eyes). If you do not have a job then you had better be looking for one or going to school. If you are not going to school, you had better be doing some significant chores to make up for the rent that you can’t pay. (You may now feel sorry for my children.) ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-a-grownup-not-doing-grownup-things-seem-strange-to-you/586921/79 "2011-06-27T19:17:09Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > Playing piano. Oh okay. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-a-grownup-not-doing-grownup-things-seem-strange-to-you/586921/80 "2011-06-27T19:38:10Z")
> [@Silver Tyger Girl](#): > > Not having a way to support yourself or at least trying? Yeah, immature. This is the crux of the biscuit to me…it’s about living autonomously and being responsible for yourself. Cars and sex and even jobs are really secondary. Some people have family money, some people marry and are supported - that’s all good to me - they qualify, they are essentially responsible for themselves (quibble quibble etc.) I will, however, say that eternal students give me pause - the “I’m 30 but I’m pursuing my degree so my parents are supporting me…” folks are IMHO just delaying on purpose. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-a-grownup-not-doing-grownup-things-seem-strange-to-you/586921.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-a-grownup-not-doing-grownup-things-seem-strange-to-you/586921.md?page=5)