# At what point does aging no longer benefit wine? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** wine\ **Created:** [November 20, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-aging-no-longer-benefit-wine/705118 "2014-11-20T00:25:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-aging-no-longer-benefit-wine/705118/21 "2014-11-26T00:56:56Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Interesting backstory, **Chefguy**. I think you just beat the wine into submission. A distinct possibility. For the past five years, the two bottles have been stored on a rack in the dining room, heated in the winter, cooled in the summer. All it needs is for a picture of Jesus to appear in the dust on top and I’ll have a shrine. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-aging-no-longer-benefit-wine/705118/22 "2014-11-26T01:54:07Z")
> [@Saturn\_Dreams](#): > > No, you should not rotate wines when cellaring. The less it’s touched, the better. You want the sediments to separate from aged wines so that they can be filtered out when serving, or else you’ll get a nasty bitter taste that will ruin the nuances of the wine that took you so long to develop. If you’re going to filter the wine while serving, wouldn’t that catch the sediments anyway? ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-aging-no-longer-benefit-wine/705118/23 "2014-11-26T01:57:45Z")
Filtering will catch the big ones, but the fine sediment will get through. Don’t rotate. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-aging-no-longer-benefit-wine/705118/24 "2014-11-26T02:02:58Z")
The wife and I went up to [Cain Vineyard & Winery](https://www.google.com/search?q=Cain+Vineyard+%26+Winery&rlz=1C1KMZB_enUS574US585&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=1085&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=gTJ1VI7uH4OCigKf_IGIDg&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAw#imgdii=_) (stunning landscape for wine growing) in the early aughts and I picked up a 2001 Cain 5. [Cellar Tracker](http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=54323) recommends we drink it soon (and yes, I properly cared for the bottle). ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-aging-no-longer-benefit-wine/705118/25 "2014-11-26T04:29:46Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > But I don’t think price is a good indicator for bottles priced between those two price points. There are $60 bottle that should be opened tomorrow and $20 bottles that should be set up for a few years. How do you know, though? ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-aging-no-longer-benefit-wine/705118/26 "2014-11-26T04:32:46Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I took the plunge with the Carvalho, Ribeiro & Ferreira Garrafeira red from the Dao region. The cork was so soaked that I could move it with my finger. I carefully uncorked it, and the cork came apart after I got it out. I decanted it in to a juice pitcher through a wine aerator, and gave it a taste. It was a bit brutal, but not undrinkable, so I let it sit for a couple of hours. On second tasting, it was surprisingly fruity, with none of the ‘decrepitude’ I expected; almost a port consistency. Now, a few days later, it has completely mellowed and is still drinkable. I’m astounded. > > The other wine is a mystery, as nothing remains of the label; I think it may be a Douro. It’s a cork closure, but the cork and bottle top are protected with a metal capping (presumably to keep air out), which I remember is a bitch to get off. That is fantastic! What a great story. The wine sounds a lot like some of the notoriously slow to evolve Petite Sirahs of the late 70s to mid 80s: absolutely massive, not all that complex, but still quite fruity and drinkable. Do you remember what color it was, whether the edge of the fluid was starting to brown? Your story of how you carted around your things in the RV, brought back memories of how my then-wife and I moved our wine cross country. Ice’ll keep stuff cool for longer than I thought, before we did it. Anyway, great story and I’m glad the wine turned out all right. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-aging-no-longer-benefit-wine/705118/27 "2014-11-26T04:40:52Z")
> [@Patch](#): > > How do you know, though? Ask the people you’re buying it from. Despite Chefguy’s example in this thread, I’d recommend some form of climate control if you were planning on storing the wine for a few years. But, IMHO, a lot of upfront fruit, well oaked California cult cabernets are as good as they’re ever going to be within a year or two of release. And, if you were following the “thirty-seven, fifty” restaurant wine thread, they can be pricey. Contrast that with, say, Vouvray Moelleux, which until recently could be had quite cheaply, and yet the wine stood a good chance of outliving you. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-aging-no-longer-benefit-wine/705118/28 "2014-11-26T05:58:57Z")
> [@Patch](#): > > How do you know, though? In general, wines with a low pH (higher acidity) age better. Red wines with more tannins and other phenols are also generally better with some aging. But those are very general guidelines. Unless you know the characteristics of a wine very well, you’re best off following Gray Ghost’s recommendation to ask. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-aging-no-longer-benefit-wine/705118/29 "2014-11-26T08:43:21Z")
> [@August\_West](#): > > I found a bottle of Chateau Margaux, I think it was 1986, in my in-laws basement about 5 years ago. Not knowing them to be big wine drinkers, I asked them about it and was told it was being saved for a “special occasion”. > > I told them opening a bottle of Margaux _is_ a special occasion all by itself, and that they weren’t doing it any favors by letting it age any further. > > So, we opened it. It was completely and utterly corked. It was horrible My father used to keep some bottles for a very long time (the oldest was close to 40 years old when we drank it, IIRC). Except that I don’t think they were wines that had the potential to age well to begin with, and that the bottles were stored in poor conditions. Uniformly very bad, cork-tainted, etc… For some reason he pretended they were good, though. ---
**Author:** ![Waterman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b2d939/32.png) [@Waterman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waterman)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-aging-no-longer-benefit-wine/705118/30 "2014-11-26T09:25:38Z")
While the discussion has focused on red wines let me also add that many white wines are also quite capable of being aged and much of the success has to do with the objectives of the winemaker. The type of grapes, cabernet sauvignon and merlot can age nicely while Gamay wines (think Beaujolais) do not age well at all. For the reds, wines with good fruit, high tannins and other components (discussed above) the aging will smooth out the tannins and provide a very smooth and mellow drink. I store my wines (and some beers for that matter) in my crawl space where the temperature varies between 50 and 60 degrees F with very little change (1 degree F) in day-to-day variation. I store them on their sides including those with Stelvin closures. Either of the main wine review publications (Wine Spectator and Wine Advocate) will provide recommendations concerning aging and cellaring. I have very successfully aged and consumed $7-9 bottles of red wine for up to 10 years. However, as stated above, not all wines are capable of aging and some judgment needs to be applied. As far as whites go, one has to look no farther that France for their white burgundies (chardonnay) and Alsace (Pinot Gris, Riesling and Gewurztraminer) and German Rieslings. I still have about 25 bottles of 2001 German Mosel (formerly known as Mosel-Saar-Ruwer) Rieslings that have 4-15 years of aging remaining. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-aging-no-longer-benefit-wine/705118/31 "2014-11-26T12:43:03Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > That this wine is drinkable after all that abuse, temperature changes, etc. is remarkable, and it makes you wonder about all the fussiness out there about storage, etc. Ah, but think of how good it might have been had you stored it properly :). Only kidding, I enjoyed the story and it was great the wine turned out nice. I like slowly educating myself in these threads. One day I hope to be able to afford to start accumulating a proper cellar. I was about to ask why wine is supposed to be stored on its side given that in time, this will soak the cork, but Wikipedia was sufficiently illuminating on this point ([link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storage_of_wine) in case anyone else is interested). ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-aging-no-longer-benefit-wine/705118/32 "2014-11-26T15:28:21Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > Ah, but think of how good it might have been had you stored it properly :). Lost opportunity. I actually do store most of our wine in the basement, which, while a heated space, doesn’t get above about 65 degrees. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-aging-no-longer-benefit-wine/705118.md?page=1)