# At what point does debate around Israel become antisemitism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 16, 2026, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-debate-around-israel-become-antisemitism/1033102 "2026-09-16T05:56:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2026, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-debate-around-israel-become-antisemitism/1033102/163 "2026-09-17T15:24:00Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > And some who really are vile in their beliefs, not caring that they are literally threatening a fair number of students for political beliefs and are reasonably understood as threatening Jews in general. But not Jew haters themselves. Replace “Jews” with “Blacks” here, and assume this is the heigh of BLM with respect to political climate. Are we still having the same conversation? Genuinely trying to understand what it is you’re trying to parse here. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2026, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-debate-around-israel-become-antisemitism/1033102/164 "2026-09-17T15:53:20Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > So, they’ve defined anti-Zionist Jews as antisemites. Correct. It was when they started cataloging Jewish Voice For Peace demonstrations as “anti-semitic incidents” that many of us concluded they had lost all credibility. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2026, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-debate-around-israel-become-antisemitism/1033102/165 "2026-09-17T15:55:19Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Genuinely trying to understand what it is you’re trying to parse here. Trying to engage in honest discussion regarding the OP (remember it?): > [@Leaper](#): > > When does opposition to genocide become antisemitism? When does criticism of antisemitism become genocide apologia? Because I do believe that both are do happen and are problematic, but the lines get so blurry and personal that I wonder if there’s any reasonable standard or sign. I’m with the OP, and both of us very different than some who are posting most voluminously here - I am not sure. Just speaking for myself I don’t have bright lines and I tend more to the benefit of the doubt when it comes to speech, maybe especially speech I disagree with. So discussion especially with others who share my lack of bright lines would be of if interest ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2026, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-debate-around-israel-become-antisemitism/1033102/166 "2026-09-17T15:58:25Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > It was when they started cataloging Jewish Voice For Peace demonstrations as “anti-semitic incidents” that many of us concluded they had lost all credibility. Jewish Voices for Peace told Jews that they should avoid praying in Hebrew because it might be “deeply traumatizing” to Palestinians. > [@](#): > > Hearing Hebrew language can be deeply traumatizing for > Palestinians. Therefore, prayers are best said in English or > Arabic, rather than Hebrew. It is not our place to redeem our > tradition on the backs of Palestinians. Enough has been > taken. Pdf link to JVP’s own literature: > **[21grieftechnologies.pdf](https://jvptriangle.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/21grieftechnologies.pdf)** > > 33.07 MB I’m sorry, but that IS antisemitic. And it has nothing to do with “criticism of Israel”. If someone said that Muslims shouldn’t pray in Arabic because it’s “deeply traumatizing to victims of 9/11”, we would all agree that this is exceedingly Islamophobic. But somehow, we give that kind of behavior a pass as long as it’s directed at Jews. When you tell Jews that they must abandon the language that almost all Jewish liturgy is written in because it’s “deeply traumatizing” to even hear, _ **that is anti-semitism.** _ ---
**Author:** ![Mallard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Mallard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mallard)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2026, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-debate-around-israel-become-antisemitism/1033102/167 "2026-09-17T16:02:38Z")
When I talk about this issue, I don’t mention Israel or Israeli/Jewish people I just kick Benjamin the yahoo and his rump, Trump around. Still, we can’t lose site of the fact that Hamas started this whole thing. But killing innocent people is just plain wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2026, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-debate-around-israel-become-antisemitism/1033102/168 "2026-09-17T16:02:54Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > But somehow, we give that kind of behavior a pass as long as it’s directed at Jews. Because Jews are supposed to fit in, and not make waves. Or at least so I’ve heard. Israelis never got that particular memo. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2026, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-debate-around-israel-become-antisemitism/1033102/169 "2026-09-17T16:04:58Z")
**Moderating** : That bit you added is not the topic of this OP. I will hide it for you. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2026, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-debate-around-israel-become-antisemitism/1033102/170 "2026-09-17T16:05:03Z")
Closed on September 17, 2026, 4:05pm UTC ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2026, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-debate-around-israel-become-antisemitism/1033102/171 "2026-09-17T16:12:18Z")
Opened on September 17, 2026, 4:12pm UTC ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2026, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-debate-around-israel-become-antisemitism/1033102/172 "2026-09-17T16:13:08Z")
If a normal person wants their university to divest from Israel (as they should IMO), and there is a demonstration advocating that the university divest from Israel, they will probably go to that demonstration. If the demonstrations are large, they will probably say the organizers of the demonstration are doing a good job. This does _not_ mean they have researched the backgrounds of the organizers, and fully agree with their entire agenda, because that’s not how normal people work. Babale’s argument here is just a lame case of guilt by association. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2026, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-debate-around-israel-become-antisemitism/1033102/173 "2026-09-17T16:13:59Z")
I do not doubt your sincerity. > [@DSeid](#): > > Just speaking for myself I don’t have bright lines and I tend more to the benefit of the doubt when it comes to speech, maybe especially speech I disagree with. Nor am I arguing for shutting down speech with which I happen to disagree. _"May those who love us, love us._ _And for those who don’t love us,_ _May God turn their hearts;_ _And if He doesn’t turn their hearts,_ _May He turn their ankles,_ _So we will know them by their limping."_ ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2026, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-debate-around-israel-become-antisemitism/1033102/174 "2026-09-17T16:18:56Z")
This is verging on self-parody here. Six years ago, some JVP members suggest that in one particular obscure online publication, which then becomes the entire JVP organization TELLING Jews what they MUST do. 🤪 I can assure you that all the JVP members I know pray in Hebrew and would consider this bonkers. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2026, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-debate-around-israel-become-antisemitism/1033102/175 "2026-09-17T16:22:44Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > This is verging on self-parody here. **Moderating** : dial it down, this thread has been very problematic with too much pushing towards attacking the poster. See last nights note: > [@At what point does debate around Israel become antisemitism?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-debate-around-israel-become-antisemitism/1033102/133): > > Moderating: After a review by all #Great Debates moderators, we are extending to cool down on the thread until tomorrow morning. In reviewing the thread, we find that certain posters, most notably @iiandyiiii, @Babale, and @QuickSilver have been posting in a very inflammatory manner, to the detriment of the actual discussion. I think it’s no surprise to say that this is a very emotionally loaded topic, and this language inevitably derails the civil discussion that is the core of Great Debates.… ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2026, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-debate-around-israel-become-antisemitism/1033102/176 "2026-09-17T16:25:20Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > If a normal person wants their university to divest from Israel (as they should IMO), and there is a demonstration advocating that the university divest from Israel, they will probably go to that demonstration. If the demonstrations are large, they will probably say the organizers of the demonstration are doing a good job. This does _not_ mean they have researched the backgrounds of the organizers, and fully agree with their entire agenda, because that’s not how normal people work. Babale’s argument here is just a lame case of guilt by association. I’m sorry, but you absolutely would not make this argument for any other for any other form of racism. If someone went to a protest against illegal immigration and just so happened to end up marching with white supremacists with a tiki torch in his hand, we wouldn’t say “oh well, how could they have known? There were very fine people on both sides”. And it’s not like these groups are even hiding these views. But I’ll just point out that initially you brought up JVP as if it is utterly ridiculous to possibly accuse that group of anti-semitism, I have shown that they do indeed say _very_ antisemitic things, and you have shifted the goalposts to “well not everyone does their research before marching in support of something”. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2026, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-debate-around-israel-become-antisemitism/1033102/177 "2026-09-17T16:28:50Z")
Already answered, and having been appropriately Mod-noted, I think I need to just stop interacting with you outside the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2026, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-debate-around-israel-become-antisemitism/1033102/178 "2026-09-17T16:29:12Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > This is verging on self-parody here. Six years ago, some JVP members suggest that in one particular obscure online publication, which then becomes the entire JVP organization TELLING Jews what they MUST do. 🤪 I can assure you that all the JVP members I know pray in Hebrew and would consider this bonkers. Again, you initially brought up JVP as if it is completely ridiculous to accuse them of anti-semitism, but now it’s “well it was just one author in an obscure publication!”. I’m sorry, but we would _never_ buy this excuse from MAGA supporters. I don’t know why you expect me to buy it from their equivalent on the left. If this is just something some idiot said, has JVP come out and said “actually this was a bonkers and racist idea and we are investigating how such a thing ended up in one of our publications”? If not, doesn’t that _make you suspect of their intentions_? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2026, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-debate-around-israel-become-antisemitism/1033102/179 "2026-09-17T16:29:18Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I’m sorry, but that IS antisemitic. And it has nothing to do with “criticism of Israel”. > > If someone said that Muslims shouldn’t pray in Arabic because it’s “deeply traumatizing to victims of 9/11”, we would all agree that this is exceedingly Islamophobic. It is incredibly stupid. Very mockable. And no not antisemitic. Trying to _forbid_ prayers in Hebrew would be. Likewise a thought about requesting not praying in Arabic. I wouldn’t presume the person was Islamophobic; I would presume they are an idiot. Although playing with that: if a Muslim was part of a 911 commemoration for victims I could understand the thought process that maybe they should refrain from praying Arabic? I would disagree but I would definitely not think they were being anti Islam. So no that is not near my line. It is just being dumb. To me a big issue is that is a huge amount of antisemitism out there. Scary antisemitism. Attacking people, shooting up temples, increasing beliefs in many of the vilest tropes. And real Islamophobia etc. Extending the umbrella to cover rustling grass distracts from what is a real issue that frankly scares me. And those who are working hardest to “defend against antisemitism” by attacking antizionism are NOT doing it on my behalf … many of them I am very sure _are_ the antisemites I fear the most, using us as a cover and stoking up more Jew hate as a result. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2026, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-debate-around-israel-become-antisemitism/1033102/180 "2026-09-17T16:32:14Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I wouldn’t presume the person was Islamophobic; I would presume they are an idiot. ¿Por qué no los dos? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2026, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-debate-around-israel-become-antisemitism/1033102/181 "2026-09-17T16:35:30Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > It is incredibly stupid. Very mockable. And no not antisemitic. Trying to _forbid_ prayers in Hebrew would be. Likewise a thought about requesting not praying in Arabic. I wouldn’t presume the person was Islamophobic; I would presume they are an idiot. “I’m not going to _forbid_ you from speaking in your terrorist tongue, but I’d _really appreciate it_ if you prayed in English instead of Arabic” would _absolutely_ be Islamophobic. People making noise complaints about calls to prayer or whining about the “Ground Zero” mosque were called Islamophobic. This is the same exact thing. > [@DSeid](#): > > Although playing with that: if a Muslim was part of a 911 commemoration for victims I could understand the thought process that maybe they should refrain from praying Arabic? How is that related to Jews praying on Tisha Beav? I could see the argument that a Jewish speaker at a Palestinian vigil shouldn’t speak in Hebrew, which is akin to your scenario. But JVP suggested that Jews shouldn’t pray in Hebrew in Tisha Beav. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > ¿Por qué no los dos?. I think it would indeed be a given that the Islamophobe in question would be pretty damn stupid, yes. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2026, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-debate-around-israel-become-antisemitism/1033102/182 "2026-09-17T16:37:53Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > “I’m not going to _forbid_ you from speaking in your terrorist tongue, but I’d _really appreciate it_ if you prayed in English instead of Arabic” would _absolutely_ be Islamophobic. This logic I can’t follow, many or most Christian Churches did this in the UK and North America. Latin was largely dropped for English. And believe me, I didn’t want to get involved in this debate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-debate-around-israel-become-antisemitism/1033102.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-does-debate-around-israel-become-antisemitism/1033102.md?page=10)