# At What Point In Old West Was Gunfighting Forbidden? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 24, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-in-old-west-was-gunfighting-forbidden/723400 "2015-06-24T21:53:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-in-old-west-was-gunfighting-forbidden/723400/21 "2015-06-25T17:41:05Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > the Johnson County War killed three people. That’s not what [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_County_War) says, by a long shot. What’s your source? ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-in-old-west-was-gunfighting-forbidden/723400/22 "2015-06-25T22:01:06Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That’s not what [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_County_War) says, by a long shot. > > What’s your source? Interesting. But, as has been said - exactly like a mob war of ambush and slaughter never any duel between men of honor following a code. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-in-old-west-was-gunfighting-forbidden/723400/23 "2015-06-25T23:39:28Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That’s not what [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_County_War) says, by a long shot. > > What’s your source? I recall the WSJ did an article after the movie bombed. they researched the local newspapers and couldn’t find any deaths, except for the three mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-in-old-west-was-gunfighting-forbidden/723400/24 "2015-06-26T00:02:57Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That’s not what [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_County_War) says, by a long shot. That’s not the most coherent page. I like the one at [Wyoming history](http://www.wyohistory.org/essays/johnson-county-war) better. The best quote from that article says a lot about the reality of guns and death. > [@](#): > > n the early morning of November 1, 1891, members of the assassination squad burst into a cabin occupied by Champion and another man. The cabin was a tiny structure located next to the Middle Fork of Powder River in the Hole-in-the-Wall country about 15 miles southwest of what’s now Kaycee, Wyo. Only two members of the five-man squad were able to squeeze into the cabin. Those two, however, held pistols on their two captives and demanded that Champion “give it up.” > > Champion, he told the Buffalo Bulletin the next month, stretched and yawned while reaching under a pillow for his own revolver, and the shooting started. The intruders fired shots at point-blank range, so close that powder burns were left on Champion’s face. Amazingly, all the shots fired at him missed. But even if we stick with Wiki, there seems to be fewer than a dozen deaths from 1889 to 1893 and that includes any deaths that can be attributed generally to the situation anywhere in Wyoming. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-in-old-west-was-gunfighting-forbidden/723400/25 "2015-06-26T13:44:02Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Interesting. But, as has been said - exactly like a mob war of ambush and slaughter never any duel between men of honor following a code. That’s not what I was commenting on at that point. ralph124c was making a general comment about the “Old West”. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > That’s not the most coherent page. I like the one at [Wyoming history](http://www.wyohistory.org/essays/johnson-county-war) better. That article is focused on the broader issues versus the various shootings, and is not remotely comprehensive regarding the latter. > [@](#): > > But even if we stick with Wiki, there seems to be fewer than a dozen deaths from 1889 to 1893 and that includes any deaths that can be attributed generally to the situation anywhere in Wyoming. I don’t know that this is true. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-in-old-west-was-gunfighting-forbidden/723400/26 "2015-06-26T13:56:54Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > That may be so. > But the Cracked article offered as evidence only speaks to murder. > The evidence of few murders is not the same as evidence of few killings or few gun fights. > Also, the Bodie number of 20+ over a year and a half is also out of line with the 5/yr max provided by Cracked. There were only about [250 people](http://clantongang.com/oldwest/boothill.html) buried in Boothill Cemetery over the six years it was open. So that’s fewer than 50 _total_ deaths per year. That’s for a population of at least 10,000. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-in-old-west-was-gunfighting-forbidden/723400/27 "2015-06-26T14:10:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > There were only about [250 people](http://clantongang.com/oldwest/boothill.html) buried in Boothill Cemetery over the six years it was open. So that’s fewer than 50 _total_ deaths per year. That’s for a population of at least 10,000. There’s less to that than meets the eye. Tombstone was a rapidly growing town and was founded at around the same time as the graveyard, and the population was only at the 10K level for brief part of the time, and would have averaged a lot less. Furthermore, it was a very young and probably healthy population of miners and cowboys. It’s not like a lot of these deaths were old guys dying from cancer. In addition, your cite refers to “Some two hundred fifty _known_ people” (emphasis added) buried there. The cite also says that “_The name Boot Hill comes from the fact that many of these graves were filled with people that died suddenly or violently with their boots on!_” In sum, that cite is consistent with the notion that Tombstone was a pretty violent place back in those days. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-in-old-west-was-gunfighting-forbidden/723400/28 "2015-06-26T14:52:15Z")
The population was actually substantially more than 10,000. The number doesn’t include the Chinese and Mexican laborers in the town. And there are certainly no more than 300 bodies in the cemetery based on other sources. Anyway, I think your comment about cancer kind of misses the point: the young and healthy die too, especially miners. The mortality rate for the US as a whole _today_ is just over 8 per 1000 per year. In other words, you would expect a town with a population the size of Tombstone’s to lose 80 people a year. That’s with modern medicine and nutrition and airbags and water treatment and so on. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-in-old-west-was-gunfighting-forbidden/723400/29 "2015-06-26T14:57:39Z")
If there’s some reason to believe that _everyone_ who died during those six years was buried in that spot then those numbers are more meaningful than if people had a tendency to bury people elsehweres ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-in-old-west-was-gunfighting-forbidden/723400/30 "2015-06-26T14:58:31Z")
Other than the Chinese, everyone _was_ buried in Boothill while it was open. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-in-old-west-was-gunfighting-forbidden/723400/31 "2015-06-26T15:15:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Anyway, I think your comment about cancer kind of misses the point: the young and healthy die too, especially miners. The mortality rate for the US as a whole _today_ is just over 8 per 1000 per year. In other words, you would expect a town with a population the size of Tombstone’s to lose 80 people a year. That’s with modern medicine and nutrition and airbags and water treatment and so on. This is a specious point. Of course “the young and healthy die too”, but at rates that are a fraction of those of older people and the population as a whole. To put some illustrative numbers on it, look at this cite from [US Census data from 1995](http://www.allcountries.org/uscensus/129_death_and_death_rates_by_age.html). The number for all ages is 880 per 100K, which is close to the figure you give. But the number for the 25-44 age group is 192 per 100K, while the number for 65 and over is 5,053 per 100K. And again, the people in Tombstone were undoubtedly healthier than the average 25-44, being concentrated in mining and cattle ranching which are demanding fields. I’m not claiming that _everyone_ who died in Tombstone was shot, of course, and there would have been some people who died in mining or other accidents, or infections and so on. But based on the numbers that you’ve shown, and the average population and demographic of that town, the evidence is that a lot more people were dying than would be expected for that population, which is consistent with the notion that there was quite a lot of violence going on. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-in-old-west-was-gunfighting-forbidden/723400/32 "2015-06-26T15:23:19Z")
From the Johnson Wiki page, I count 3 lynchings, 2 “disappeared”, 1 poisoned, and about 15 assorted “gunned down”, “shot”, or “assassinated” in some way connected to the troubles that started with the initial 2 lynchings. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-in-old-west-was-gunfighting-forbidden/723400/33 "2015-06-26T20:23:46Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Other than the Chinese, everyone _was_ buried in Boothill while it was open. It was surprisingly common, even in that era, for bodies to be embalmed and shipped back to the family. So where you die and where you were buried are not always the same. ---
**Author:** ![Ispolkom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47774/32.png) [@Ispolkom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ispolkom)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-in-old-west-was-gunfighting-forbidden/723400/34 "2015-06-26T21:15:23Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > From the Johnson Wiki page, I count 3 lynchings, 2 “disappeared”, 1 poisoned, and about 15 assorted “gunned down”, “shot”, or “assassinated” in some way connected to the troubles that started with the initial 2 lynchings. Which seems pretty considerable for a county that had only 2357 inhabitants according to the 1890 census. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-in-old-west-was-gunfighting-forbidden/723400.md?page=1)