# At what point is a creditor calling considered harrassment? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 26, 2002, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-is-a-creditor-calling-considered-harrassment/138968 "2002-11-26T21:48:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-is-a-creditor-calling-considered-harrassment/138968/1 "2002-11-26T21:48:46Z")
Currently I’m in shit with Capital One. My limit is a whopping $200, and it was just about maxed when I had a late charge. That’s like $29. That pushed me over the limit, so I got another $29 overlimit fee. I paid the next one on time, but coudn’t pay the whole amount over the limit, so I got another $29 overlimit fee. Every month I make my $15 minimum payment, which is all I can afford. Every month I get a $29 overlimit fee and a $29 late fee for the overlimit amount. So every month, I get an additional $50+ added to my balance, of which I can pay down $15. Their collections department calls me every day. Every day I tell them the same thing, and tell them to stop calling me. Finally I asked them if they have any suggestions… should I skip my mortgage payment? Maybe I should let my electricity be disconnected, or better yet, have my family stop eating. Yeah it would suck, but Capital One would be happy, and that’s what matters. Strangely, they weren’t amused. “This is just a courtesy call…” they said. Today I told them that any further calls would be considered harassment. They told me that legally, they could call me once per day. They did agree to take the phone number off my account, though, after I got rather cranky. Are they really allowed to call me every day? I thought I had heard differently. Also, is there anything I can do about this damned card, so that I can make payments but not keep racking up these fees? My balance is now $425 and going up every month. ---
**Author:** ![XJETGIRLX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9fc29f/32.png) [@XJETGIRLX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XJETGIRLX)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-is-a-creditor-calling-considered-harrassment/138968/2 "2002-11-26T21:51:58Z")
Not sure, but check out [http://www.troubleshooter.com](http://www.troubleshooter.com) They’ve got a discussion area with answers to this exact question. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-is-a-creditor-calling-considered-harrassment/138968/3 "2002-11-26T21:52:18Z")
You’re going to have to bite the bullet and pay more than the minimum. Is there anywhere you can cut back, at least for a couple of months? Cancel the cable, etc? The credit card is the last thing you pay. First is the mortgage, then your car payment, then feed your family, then the utilities, _then_ the credit cards. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-is-a-creditor-calling-considered-harrassment/138968/4 "2002-11-26T21:59:53Z")
don’t have a car payment. If I cancel the cable, I can’t do my job, which means that I don’t have an income. We’re already cutting back everything we can just to pay the stuff we have to. We are 2 months behind on the electric bill, we jsut got a certified letter from the property management company wanting our homeowner’s fees, the water bill is late, etc. ---
**Author:** ![EchoKitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@EchoKitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EchoKitty)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-is-a-creditor-calling-considered-harrassment/138968/5 "2002-11-26T22:07:03Z")
You’ve got to pay over the minimum or you’ll never get it paid off. Eat really cheap food for a few months (I know it sucks, but otherwise that card will be over your head forever). I’ve been harrassed pretty heavily, but that was a pretty long time ago. I think the laws may protect you somewhat now. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-is-a-creditor-calling-considered-harrassment/138968/6 "2002-11-26T22:11:40Z")
I thought they had to stop calling if you asked them too. They can still send nasty letters, though. Have they threatened you yet? A collection agency actually threatened a friend of mine, so she called the cops! No more phone calls! ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-is-a-creditor-calling-considered-harrassment/138968/7 "2002-11-26T22:12:32Z")
We are already eating cheap food. And I’ll never get it paid off anyway, because I can’t pay more than the monthly fees that are adding up. Even if I could pay more than the minimum, I couldn’t pay over $50/month. Not in the forseeable future, anyway. I’m considering just cancelling it and taking the credit report hit that it will give me. I don’t have good credit anyway. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-is-a-creditor-calling-considered-harrassment/138968/8 "2002-11-26T22:15:41Z")
I’m pretty sure they are allowed to call you once a day, provided it’s between 9 and 9 or something. Perhaps you could consult with a debt-counselor that could act as an advocate with the Credit Card company? I think most places offer a free service of some sort. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-is-a-creditor-calling-considered-harrassment/138968/9 "2002-11-26T22:22:48Z")
Anyone know how to get in touch with one of the [non scam] debt counselors? ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-is-a-creditor-calling-considered-harrassment/138968/10 "2002-11-26T22:23:32Z")
Can you or your husband pick up a second job? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-is-a-creditor-calling-considered-harrassment/138968/11 "2002-11-26T22:39:55Z")
[Savekaryn.com](http://Savekaryn.com) is available for the next person with credit card debt? 😃 d&r ---
**Author:** ![Lsura](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Lsura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lsura)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-is-a-creditor-calling-considered-harrassment/138968/12 "2002-11-26T22:51:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OpalCat \* > \*\*Anyone know how to get in touch with one of the [non scam] debt counselors? \*\* [Consumer Credit Counseling Services](http://www.cccsintl.org/) is fairly well known. I know people who were able to use them to turn their finances around, and another who says she wouldn’t actually use them because they were rude to her. YMMV. You _might_ try actually speaking to a collections manager (or whatever they’re called) and see what they can do to set you up so you can pay. Is there any way you could manage to make a lump sum payment of the actual $200 balance on your card? That may be a way - tell them that you might be able to scrape that up, but not if they’re going to keep slapping the fees on. It may not work. I’m sort of in the same boat with one of my cards at the moment, but paying the minimum is far better than I did for a long time with them, so they’re dealing with it. Of course, I’m still getting hit with that “over the limit fee” every month, but one of these days I’ll get the funds together to get it under that, and that will make a difference to my peace of mind. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-is-a-creditor-calling-considered-harrassment/138968/13 "2002-11-26T23:12:55Z")
Credit-card debt? Been there, done that, don’t want the T-shirt… ☹ About two years ago, I came to the end on my rope with CC debt, but got to counselling and got legal assistance, and now I’m working my way out. I know how helpless and suicidal debt can make one feel. Debt counselors: UK: [http://www.cccs.co.uk/](http://www.cccs.co.uk/) Canada: > **[Savings & Debt Resources for Success | Money Mentors Alberta](https://moneymentors.ca/resources/)** > > Looking for unbiased saving & debt resources? From financial calculators to monthly budgeting tools, Money Mentors has everything you need to manage your money. [http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/SSG/ca01514e.html](http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/SSG/ca01514e.html) (These are links pages) USA: [Debtors Anonymous](http://www.debtorsanonymous.org/), which seems to be designed as a “twelve-step” program designed to help “compulsive” debtors change themselves, rather than something to help those who are overwhelmed from outside. I’m looking through their site and I don’t see the legal services that I used (see below). A [Google search](http://www.google.com/search?num=20&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&safe=off&q=credit+counselling+USA&btnG=Google+Search) on “credit counselling USA”. Looking at the results, there doesn’t seem to be the kind of “social services” and “legal assistance” approach that showed up in my Canadian search. [This outfit](http://www.123-credit-services.com/useful-credit-services-&-financial-links.html) has a links page that may include some useful sites… In Canada most areas have “credit counselling” as part of family services delivered by local government. They’ll deal with creditors and manage your payments. If that doesn’t work out, you can (in Ontario at least) make a “Consumer Proposal” which is a legal agreement to pay back part of the debt at reduced monthly payments. This is handled by a trustee, same as bankruptcty, but it doesnt have the legal implications of bankruptcy. This is what I did; I first went to Family Services of Peel [Region, just outside Toronto]. We set up a debt-management program, but it didn’t work out. They referred me to a trustte firm named [Herpers Chagani Gowling](http://www.bankruptcyanswers.com/), who set up the arrangements. We planned payments I could afford, signed some legal papers. The creditors had 45 days to object to the proposed legal agreement; none did, so now they are not allowed to contact me. They must go through the trustee. I went from around $1400 a month in debt payments, which I could not pay, to $500 a month, which I can pay. I’m on the 14th month of a 48-month repayment plan. If I had gone to bankruptcy, the trustee would have taken control of all my financial affairs, and basically given me an allowance to live on. This would have been over in a year though. These guys helped me _immensely_. I was able to go from living in a rented room to living in an actual apartment… ---
**Author:** ![jesuslynch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e99b99/32.png) [@jesuslynch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jesuslynch)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-is-a-creditor-calling-considered-harrassment/138968/14 "2002-11-26T23:14:04Z")
Call and ask to speak with a supervisor. Explain the situation and see if they can work out a payment plan. They may ask for $30 or so dollars a month with a six-month committment, but usually that will stop those freaking extra charges. From what you’ve said, it sounds like it wouldn’t hurt to give it a try. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-is-a-creditor-calling-considered-harrassment/138968/15 "2002-11-26T23:14:31Z")
Oh, and Capital One? Along with MBNA, they _still_ send applications to my door. I’ve heard nothing good about either of them. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-is-a-creditor-calling-considered-harrassment/138968/16 "2002-11-26T23:31:18Z")
PS: OpalCat? Feel free to email me if you need to–I’ve just enabled my address in my profile. -S. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-is-a-creditor-calling-considered-harrassment/138968/17 "2002-11-26T23:57:45Z")
Could you take out a small loan (around $450) from a bank to pay your credit card off and then make the payments to the bank? I imagine that a one-year loan from the bank would amount to less than $50/month. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-is-a-creditor-calling-considered-harrassment/138968/18 "2002-11-27T00:13:08Z")
Opal, I know you are a homeowner. Have you considered refinancing your house and consolidating your debt? That can be such a lifesaver, because mortgage rates are MUCH lower than credit card rates. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-is-a-creditor-calling-considered-harrassment/138968/19 "2002-11-27T00:37:28Z")
I’m a credit manager and yes, they are entitled to call you once a day. That’s a contact. If you don’t answer your phone they can keep calling until they get in touch with you. Write a letter asking them to cease and desist. Send it registered. But if they are unable to continue their collection calls, they may write the balance off as uncollectible, which will stay on your credit report far longer than simple past due. I wouldn’t recommend a Consumer Credit Counselor (like AmeriDebt or others) because that will reflect as badly on your credit as a charge off. If you do go that route, however, if your creditors agree to the plan (and they’re under no compulsion to do so), it will stop late charges, interest and collection calls as long as you continue on the plan. It would be better for you, if it’s at all possible, to get second jobs and get your finances in order. That’s the only real soloution to the problem. May I recommend you read Dave Ramsey’s “Financial Peace”? Check it out from the library instead of buying it. StG ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-is-a-creditor-calling-considered-harrassment/138968/20 "2002-11-27T00:39:45Z")
The problem is letting them call you. Tomorrow call them, and say that the penalty that they’ve applied to your overbalance is usurious and uncollectable. You refuse to honor it because it is that very charge itself that they are applying to you that is causing you to have the charge in the first place. Do a calculation and see what your current balance would be if you allowed them one single overbalance penalty. Tell them you consider that to be the actual sum of money that you owe, and that you will not honor ridiculous penalties that amount to multiples of the actual money you owe. Let them know that if they work with you on this you stand ready to repay the fair debt that you owe, and that if they do not, you will not consider the debt to be valid, will not pay it now, and at any time in the future, and will consider legal action for any damages they cause you or your reputation due to their usurious and illegal actions. The person will argue with you and say that what I have just told you is a bunch of bullshit (which it mostly is, but it’s very good bullshit.) The only response you have for the time being is “do you have the authority to accept those terms as full payment for my outstanding debt balance?” When you get to a person that has authority, just make it very clear that you will not honor these service charges, and that they do not apply to your credit limit. They are seperate entities. Insist on this no matter what. You have nothing to lose. The company is a scummy company that set you up to fail so that they could charge you penalties and make money off them. Let them know that it is not going to happen. You will not be victimized. Let them know that if they do not agree to drop the surcharges, you’re not going to pay any bill from them ever again, and you’re never going to speak to them again. Those are their two choices. They may just hang up on you, and resume harassing the next day. Do the same thing. Call them back twice for each time they call you. Abuse their 800 number. Waste their manpower. Give them paperwork. Refuse to pay because of the usury. Write them a letter. Get a paralegal at legal aid to write a letter for you. Keep explaining your stance over and over again. Do not budge, until you find somebody who proposes a compromise. At the very first reasonable and favorable compromise, take it, and follow up in writing with the name of the person you spoke to. This will work -Scylla, who is like unto a God when it comes to loan workouts. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-point-is-a-creditor-calling-considered-harrassment/138968.md?page=2)