# At what price victory? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 19, 2009, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-price-victory/506945 "2009-08-19T13:13:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-price-victory/506945/101 "2009-08-21T17:44:46Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > Apples and oranges. On one hand, you’ve got a popular radio personality who hosts a daily show listened to by millions and who has struck the fear of God into his party if anyone criticizes him. On the other, you have a documentary filmmaker who makes a movie once every few years and who has zero power or influence within his party. Are you familiar with Markos Moulitsas and Keith Olbermann? > [@](#): > > On one hand, you have an elected congresswoman who frequently and actively speaks for the GOP. And on the other, a non-elected self-appointed spokesman who has very few apologists within the Democratic party. Are you familiar with Sheila Jackson Lee and Maxine Waters? ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-price-victory/506945/102 "2009-08-22T03:00:44Z")
> [@furt](#): > > A majority of those currently uninsured include illegal aliens, those who choose to be uninsured, and those already eligible for medicaid/medicare. The vast majority of the uninsured are US citizens. And many/most of those that aren’t are legal. [Cite](http://www.factcheck.org/2009/03/uninsured-us-citizens/). > [@](#): > > The “47 million uninsured” figure is from the 2006 U.S. Census Bureau report. In 2007, the Census Bureau reported that the number actually declined somewhat, to 45.7 million people under 65 (the age of Medicare eligibility). > > Ever since health coverage became a major issue in the 2008 presidential campaign, we’ve received periodic questions from readers who wonder whether a large percentage of the uninsured are non-citizens or illegal immigrants. They’re not. According to the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation, 79 percent of the uninsured are native or naturalized U.S. citizens. The remaining 21 percent accounts for both legal and illegal immigrants. And regarding those who choose to be uninsured, they’re not REFUSING to be uninsured, only making the decision that the high cost doesn’t outweigh the benefits. IMHO, that’s not exactly a ringing endorsement of our current system either when even those that CAN pay feel it’s not worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-price-victory/506945/103 "2009-08-22T06:39:37Z")
> [@Cyberhwk](#): > > IMHO, that’s not exactly a ringing endorsement of our current system either when even those that CAN pay feel it’s not worth it. I doubt they feel it’s not worth it. More than likely they just feel they aren’t gonna need it for the foreseeable future and so they’d rather spend the money on cars, big-screen TV’s, etc. To a significant degree these are the kinds of people who develop pre-existing conditions. Then when they can’t get coverage, they want the government to pay to treat them, or to force the insurance companies that they haven’t been paying up to now to cover them now that they need it. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-price-victory/506945/104 "2009-08-22T08:01:22Z")
> [@Cyberhwk](#): > > The vast majority of the uninsured are US citizens. And many/most of those that aren’t are legal. [Cite](http://www.factcheck.org/2009/03/uninsured-us-citizens/). No cite needed – I already knew it, which is why I didn’t claim otherwise. The groups I listed _combine_ to make up the majority of the uninsured. 40% of the uninsured make over $50K a year; most of them can certainly afford private insurance. Another third of the uninsured qualify for medicaid but do not sign up for it, possibly because they don’t want to pay even the medicare premium; presumably they would also pass at signing up for Obama’s “Public Option.” > [@](#): > > And regarding those who choose to be uninsured, they’re not REFUSING to be uninsured, only making the decision that the high cost doesn’t outweigh the benefits. IMHO, that’s not exactly a ringing endorsement of our current system either when even those that CAN pay feel it’s not worth it. Why? Is there some reason everybody MUST be insured even if they don’t want to be, even if they’re a millionaire in great health? For a young person in good health, it can actually be quite a sensible choice to forego insurance if your employer allows you to take the cash instead. As I said, millions of people choose not to sign up for medicare, and its premiums are minimal. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-price-victory/506945/105 "2009-08-22T08:08:42Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Why? Is there some reason everybody MUST be insured even if they don’t want to be, even if they’re a millionaire in great health? For a young person in good health, it can actually be quite a sensible choice to forego insurance if your employer allows you to take the cash instead. As I said, millions of people choose not to sign up for medicare, and its premiums are minimal. No, absolutely not. But if you get the price low enough sooner or later there WILL be a price where they’ll say, “Sure. That coverage is worth the price” As it is, though, the price of the policies are higher than that. I’m just saying that the fact that some are voluntarily without insurance isn’t necessarily a sign they are being well served by our current system. Oh believe me. Everyone told me I needed a policy out of college. Premiums ~$5,000, health care costs ~$1,500, amount my policy covered… **$0**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-what-price-victory/506945.md?page=5)