# At work, why are the two hottest women always at each other's throat? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 29, 2014, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-work-why-are-the-two-hottest-women-always-at-each-others-throat/708411 "2014-12-29T04:37:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-work-why-are-the-two-hottest-women-always-at-each-others-throat/708411/41 "2014-12-29T21:48:19Z")
…They are? I work in an industry dominated by women and there ain’t none of them at each other’s throats, hot or not. There are tensions between some of them, but that has to do with one of them having a lot of power over the others, power she does not wield wisely or well, and the others chafe under it. Not her face or the shape of her body. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-work-why-are-the-two-hottest-women-always-at-each-others-throat/708411/42 "2014-12-29T21:49:24Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Really? When I hear a guy ask “Is she hot?”, I don’t think of girls who might just be classified as cute or having a “nice” face. I think of someone who has a very put-together appearance. I think it’s worth noting that guys don’t typically use words like “She’s cute” or “She’s pretty”, it’s almost always “She’s hot” or “Eh, she’s okay” or “She’s ugly” (Many variations on “she’s ugly”.) Of course, I can only speak for the men in my corner of the world, YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-work-why-are-the-two-hottest-women-always-at-each-others-throat/708411/43 "2014-12-29T22:01:03Z")
Women are territorial. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-work-why-are-the-two-hottest-women-always-at-each-others-throat/708411/44 "2014-12-29T22:22:22Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > I think it’s worth noting that guys don’t typically use words like “She’s cute” or “She’s pretty”, it’s almost always “She’s hot” or “Eh, she’s okay” or “She’s ugly” (Many variations on “she’s ugly”.) > > Of course, I can only speak for the men in my corner of the world, YMMV. If you saw a girl who wasn’t “hot” but who you didn’t think was hideous, how would you describe her? I used to work in a lab full of bros. The constant subject was “hotness”. It didn’t take long for me to figure out the rules well enough to predict who wa hot and who wasn’t. Girls who I might describe as “cute” or “pretty” never made the cut for “hot”. These girls who were described as “doable”. But never “hot”. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-work-why-are-the-two-hottest-women-always-at-each-others-throat/708411/45 "2014-12-29T23:02:14Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Women are territorial. Yeah, but smack them on the nose with a rolled-up newspaper if you find them pissing in the corners. Seriously, a thread about “Why are women petty, emotional, and unable to govern themselves professionally at work”? Was this thread from posted from 1958? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-work-why-are-the-two-hottest-women-always-at-each-others-throat/708411/46 "2014-12-29T23:15:24Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > Yeah, but smack them on the nose with a rolled-up newspaper if you find them pissing in the corners. Seriously, a thread about “Why are women petty, emotional, and unable to govern themselves professionally at work”? Was this thread from posted from 1958? No, it is about different strategies and conflict phenomena that seem to be more common among some types of women than men. It isn’t a baseless stereotype IMO and lots of women report it too even here. There are some women, including my mother, that refuse to work in all female environments or even have a female boss for this reason. It isn’t about professional competence or being able to handle themselves. It is about a commonly reported problem that happens when some types of women have to interact or compete in certain environments. There are plenty of articles on this on the web and they generally aren’t written by men and aren’t even anti-female. For example: > **[How to survive a toxic female dominated work environment.](https://www.newhorizoncoaching.com.au/cat-fights-work-survive-toxic-female-dominated-work-environment/)** > > You wonder "how can she go home and be a cosy mum and wife, she is such a b\*tch!" How to survive a toxic female-dominated work environment. We can start a different thread about some problematic male conflict styles that would be accurate as well but that isn’t what the question was about. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-work-why-are-the-two-hottest-women-always-at-each-others-throat/708411/47 "2014-12-29T23:22:34Z")
Without reading the answers: They are hungry and their feet hurt. It makes you mean. “Hotness” = thin + fashionable. Lettuce and high heels, it’s no way to live. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-work-why-are-the-two-hottest-women-always-at-each-others-throat/708411/48 "2014-12-29T23:23:49Z")
Here is a more thorough article from Forbes magazine on the phenomenon (written by a professional woman). “Women can be nastier bullies than men, at the workplace. What’s the best way to deal?” > **[Why Women Are The Worst Kind of Bullies](https://www.forbes.com/sites/worldviews/2012/04/30/why-women-are-the-worst-kind-of-bullies/)** > > Women can be nastier bullies than men, at the workplace. What's the best way to deal?   A Bully Free Zone sign - School in Berea, Ohio (Photo credit: Wikipedia) When Lady Gaga declared her hero was Emily-Anne, the 18-year-old \[...\] "The controversy showed how women sabotage the careers of other women by being unsupportive, it said. The columnist highlighted “rope ladders,” where women climb to senior positions, then promptly haul up the ladder right behind them. While some tactically avoid helping other women in their careers, others can resort to passive-agressive behavior to protect their interests. “Women bullies will often befriend you and then air all your secrets later, in boardrooms or at office gatherings. I’ve had patients that just can’t trust again after being humiliated like that at work,” says Dr. Namie. The problem persists, as there are no anti-bullying ethics or law in practice, unlike legal protection against sexual harassment or racial discrimination. Less than one percent of co-workers will stand up when they see their colleagues tormented, fearing their own jobs." ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-work-why-are-the-two-hottest-women-always-at-each-others-throat/708411/49 "2014-12-30T00:47:09Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Really? When I hear a guy ask “Is she hot?”, I don’t think of girls who might just be classified as cute or having a “nice” face. I think of someone who has a very put-together appearance. A put-together appearance of course makes a woman look better but a woman can be dressing like Amy Farrah Fowler every day, has a natural gorgeous face with no make up and under the frumpy clothing has a figure that I’m attracted to. I’d classify as hot IMO, they just choose not to amplify the hotness. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-work-why-are-the-two-hottest-women-always-at-each-others-throat/708411/50 "2014-12-30T02:35:24Z")
Well, we don’t know where the OP works. Maybe it’s a mud-wrestling pit. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-work-why-are-the-two-hottest-women-always-at-each-others-throat/708411/51 "2014-12-30T03:14:59Z")
I’ve seen it. I think I learned about the queen bee syndrome from women who clued me in on it. When I’ve seen it, it wasn’t so much about the the hottest, but it was an alpha female thing. It was more about possession. These are \*my \*boys. Not literally, of course. But when the new female comes along it’s a threat, and queen bees don’t like that. If the new one is a queen bee too, take cover. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-work-why-are-the-two-hottest-women-always-at-each-others-throat/708411/52 "2014-12-30T03:56:53Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Hotness, as opposed to beauty or general comeliness, is a specific thing, right? We’re talking full-on make-up, stylish hair, a certain body type, fashionable clothes. Sexy shoes. People aren’t born “hot”. Hotness is intentional and is a function of how much time and energy one puts into their physical appearance. That’s how I understand the term. Guys can usually figure out if a woman is attractive without neon signs and brass bands, but it takes longer. > [@Penfeather](#): > > Yeah, but smack them on the nose with a rolled-up newspaper if you find them pissing in the corners. Works on guys, and you don’t even end up in HR. > [@Shagnasty](#): > > (written by a professional woman). Ru Paul? I don’t notice any of the top tier jockeying for position in the troop, but I’m just an old silverback who only notices them when they walk past. Long, lingering notices. I understand that pants can be WAY too tight and skirts WAY too short for a workplace, but since the person I would be complaining to is the worst offender, I let it slide. (thinking) No, actually, only that one is competing. She’s the Alpha Bitch, with an inexplicably high position to go with it. Women who are as pretty or prettier and have talents and abilities don’t bother competing. Others just find better jobs. But maintaining rank is work, and betas and lower suffer less stress. Of course, her job that nobody can define is not stressful, but time marches on and she won’t be the top blonde forever because she’s very nice and lacks the cut-throatedness she needs to defend whatever the fuck she does for a living from the next curvy blonde who rides into town. Or sweet, elegant black girl–I wonder why that one quit. Better job, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Bouncer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@Bouncer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bouncer)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-work-why-are-the-two-hottest-women-always-at-each-others-throat/708411/53 "2014-12-30T04:27:13Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Only guys so far. > > Strangely, I’ve never really noticed this alleged phenomenon. In my experience the likelihood of two women being in conflict is the same irrespective of how attractive they are. I’m a guy and I’ve seen it in a war zone. /shrug We had to move women at least five times more often than we did males for incompatibility as roommates (There were no co-ed sleeping quarters unless you were married). I don’t know if the high stress environment acerbated the issues we saw, but they were definitely there, and I got to see the scenario play out quite a few times. It wasn’t really competition for male attention. With an 8 to 1 (or worse) male to female ratio there was a grading curve and any female could get attention just by saying “hello”. It wasn’t “bitchiness” either. There were definitely female dominance issues in play a lot of times. One of the worst fights (in terms of damage to living quarters) was between two women who were both extremely attractive, even by war zone standards. It started over one of them drinking cold bottles of water the other had brought back to their shared living quarters (although there were apparently multiple previous issues as to who would clean hair from bathroom drains, take out trash etc). They were both out of the country within 24 hours. In sum, we had more problems with adult females living together in tight quarters than we ever did with males. Males of equal rank tended to sort out very quickly things like shared chores, rotating them weekly or whatever, by coming to a quick consensus that a clean(ish) shared environment to be of benefit to all and thus the responsibility of all to a sort of set standard. Oddly you could be a complete slob in your own minimal space (and the roommate(s) would probably tolerate that), but the shared spaces would be reasonably clean and you would be simply expected to pitch in and keep it that way, personal slob or not. Bathrooms might have multiple shampoo types and soaps in various places, each person using “their” soap/shampoo and ignoring the others. Females of equal rank frequently genuinely had a lot more resentments about these things, and while willing to clean up after themselves, generally weren’t as happy to clean up after each other. They tended to demand a higher standard of other females than they themselves wanted to deliver. Their shared areas tended to be clean, but their personal areas cleaner. Bathrooms were like demilitarized zones, shampoos and soaps guarded and kept not in the bathroom but in their private areas. It was just one of the weirder things you noticed over time in an environment where quarters were tight and a thousand plus people lived, worked, ate and slept all within a fairly small geographic area. It was like a pressure cooker and you got to see more extreme behaviors. I have no idea if it’s western cultural or genetics or upbringing or what. Regards, -Bouncer- ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-work-why-are-the-two-hottest-women-always-at-each-others-throat/708411/54 "2014-12-30T05:40:25Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > It’s endemic in Nursing, to the point that[it’s considered a hugely important issue within the industry](http://www.nursingworld.org/Mobile/Nursing-Factsheets/lateral-violence-and-bullying-in-nursing.html). We call it “lateral violence”, and technically it can involve any genders, but as nursing is still 70% female, it’s mostly woman on woman. The stories my hospital working nurse friends tell would make your hair curl. They may be all sweet and professional while they’re in your hospital room, but it’s too often a bloodbath at the nurse’s station. It’s one of the reasons I’m staying out of hospital nursing, to be honest. When I only see my coworkers twice a month, there’s far less of this shit. There’s not none, surprisingly enough. People still backstab and badmouth and make power plays, but it’s a lot easier to ignore when someone is texting my boss to complain that I reported the medication profile in their patient’s folder wasn’t filled out (or some other important procedural error), rather than confronting me in meatspace. I can keep my nose on my work and just ignore it. Helps that I feel secure in the job and am not looking for a promotion, though. I have to ask, how do female doctors fit into this? Are they outside the inner battles of the nurses or do the female doctors have their own issues with other female doctors? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-work-why-are-the-two-hottest-women-always-at-each-others-throat/708411/55 "2014-12-30T13:04:42Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I have to ask, how do female doctors fit into this? Are they outside the inner battles of the nurses or do the female doctors have their own issues with other female doctors? No idea. Nurses rarely talk about doctors, except when they’re exasperated by them. But doctor/doctor interaction doesn’t make the cut for nurses’ party gossip outside the hospital. Good question, though. I’ll do some probing next time I’m with the gaggle of nurses I hang out with socially. (None of us work together; it’s probably best that way so we can keep liking each other.) ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-work-why-are-the-two-hottest-women-always-at-each-others-throat/708411/56 "2014-12-30T16:15:42Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > No idea. Nurses rarely talk about doctors, except when they’re exasperated by them. But doctor/doctor interaction doesn’t make the cut for nurses’ party gossip outside the hospital. Good question, though. I’ll do some probing next time I’m with the gaggle of nurses I hang out with socially. (None of us work together; it’s probably best that way so we can keep liking each other.) Yea I dont know either except I remember once when I was in the ER the female doctor and the nurse acted like best buds so I just felt that the female doctors would be part of the “in” group. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-work-why-are-the-two-hottest-women-always-at-each-others-throat/708411/57 "2014-12-30T16:40:29Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I have two daughters and love them more than anything in the world but it is all I can do to keep them from killing each other. Their friends are even worse. I wasn’t 10 minutes into my first all girls birthday party when the 6 year olds started forming their own little gangs and faking injuries for attention. My six-year-old gets along great with her friends. Most of the other kids I know do as well. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-work-why-are-the-two-hottest-women-always-at-each-others-throat/708411/58 "2014-12-30T17:00:52Z")
Just tell them they are both pretty and get back to work. > [@MostlyClueless](#): > > I’ve heard it described as [Crab Mentality](https://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=WkOhVNbJFcjuPKe5gOAH&url=http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality), likening the situation to a bunch of crabs in a barrel. Whenever a single crab tries to get out of the barrel, others pull it down so in the end, nobody gets out. I’m not sure if that’s the same thing. The “crabs in a pot” relates more to underprivileged classes undermining each other. Basically the “college?! You think you too good to work in the coal mine like your brothers, dad and granddad?” attitude. I think the OP is referring more of a group dynamic among women that transcends socioeconomic background. > [@MostlyClueless](#): > > What’s often overlooked in this comparision is that a barrel is not a natural place for a crab to be. Neither is the board room for women…ZING!!! (I kid I kid) Look, women are weird. I went to my 20 year high school reunion a few years back and both co-captains of the cheerleading team were still feuding over the fact that one of them used to smoke before practice. The short answer to the OPs question is that men tend to grow up determining social pecking order through accomplishments (sports, financial success, pissing contents, etc) while women tend to grow up determining social pecking order through social pecking order. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-work-why-are-the-two-hottest-women-always-at-each-others-throat/708411/59 "2014-12-30T18:42:27Z")
I suffered the wrath of an aggressive queen bee several years ago. She was used to having the undivided attention of “her boys”, and suddenly the new chick on the block–me–was threatening that. So she talked all kinds of shit behind my back and undermined me every chance she got. Once I came into work and found out what she’d said about me (because my coworkers loved throwing fuel on the flames and stirring shit), I burst into tears right at my desk. In a lab where I had no privacy. She wasn’t hot in most senses of the word. But you could tell she thought herself very attractive and sexy. It wasn’t a secret that she was having an affair with a married guy who worked on campus, because they were quite loud when they were behind closed doors. He managed the vehicles we had to reserve for field work. Guess who always had her vehicle of choice? One day I got so fed up with the drama that I asked her to step outside, away from eavesdroppers, and I demanded she stop her nonsense. She started going into her doe-eyed innocent routine, but I stopped her and told her her excuses were unwanted. I just wanted it to stop, and she knew good and well what “it” meant. Both of us had tears in our eyes, but we managed to exchange promises that we’d work better together going forward. We even hugged and not in a fake way. And it did get better. I stuck around for another year and then left for greener pastures. After that confrontation, I didn’t have another bad word to say about her. Anyway, I bring this up just to say that an outsider might have seen two chicks fighting, when really it was just one picking on the other. I didn’t have a beef with her. I was friendly with all the other women I worked with and woudn’t have given her a second thought if it hadn’t been for the shit _she_ started. It could have escalated into warfare if I were a queen bee, but I’m not. Most women aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-work-why-are-the-two-hottest-women-always-at-each-others-throat/708411/60 "2014-12-31T04:36:02Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > It’s endemic in Nursing, to the point that[it’s considered a hugely important issue within the industry](http://www.nursingworld.org/Mobile/Nursing-Factsheets/lateral-violence-and-bullying-in-nursing.html). We call it “lateral violence”, and technically it can involve any genders, but as nursing is still 70% female, it’s mostly woman on woman. The stories my hospital working nurse friends tell would make your hair curl. They may be all sweet and professional while they’re in your hospital room, but it’s too often a bloodbath at the nurse’s station. It’s one of the reasons I’m staying out of hospital nursing, to be honest. When I only see my coworkers twice a month, there’s far less of this shit. There’s not none, surprisingly enough. People still backstab and badmouth and make power plays, but it’s a lot easier to ignore when someone is texting my boss to complain that I reported the medication profile in their patient’s folder wasn’t filled out (or some other important procedural error), rather than confronting me in meatspace. I can keep my nose on my work and just ignore it. Helps that I feel secure in the job and am not looking for a promotion, though. Do you think this is a hotness issue particularly, though? Where I work, it’s almost exclusively the older, veteran nurses bullying the newbies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-work-why-are-the-two-hottest-women-always-at-each-others-throat/708411.md?page=2)