# Atheism does not equal communism and vise versa **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 5, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-does-not-equal-communism-and-vise-versa/324897 "2005-10-05T15:17:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-does-not-equal-communism-and-vise-versa/324897/41 "2005-10-05T21:06:23Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I specified him, referenced his work, quoted him, explained how he tied them together, and linked to his essay. How could I have been more clear that I was talking about Stalin’s view? Because the post I quoted was two words long, and neither your words nor **xstime** ’s made it clear to me your were talking about Stalin. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-does-not-equal-communism-and-vise-versa/324897/42 "2005-10-05T21:07:54Z")
**Lib** , I understand that you were explaining Stalin’s views in all those other posts. I was talking about that one in particular. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-does-not-equal-communism-and-vise-versa/324897/43 "2005-10-05T21:21:56Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > **Lib** , I understand that you were explaining Stalin’s views in all those other posts. I was talking about that one in particular. I was explaining Stalin’s view, and Stalin’s interpretations of Marx’s (and Lenin’s) view. Just after I posted, Xtisme posted, and so I presumed he was maintaining continuity, as was I. 'Kay? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-does-not-equal-communism-and-vise-versa/324897/44 "2005-10-05T21:22:42Z")
Yes, it’s all clear now. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-does-not-equal-communism-and-vise-versa/324897/45 "2005-10-05T22:42:40Z")
[Cult of Mao](http://www.longmarchspace.com/media/guardian%20unlimiter.htm) I wonder what they’ll be saying about him in 1000 years… ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-does-not-equal-communism-and-vise-versa/324897/46 "2005-10-05T22:53:37Z")
[Cult of Stalin](http://it.stlawu.edu/~rkreuzer/indv2/convis.htm) Even alludes to the Leninist cult Stalin fostered… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-does-not-equal-communism-and-vise-versa/324897/47 "2005-10-05T23:25:32Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Well, I agree with you, but Stalin disagreed with us. Surely, we’ve long ago put to rest both old canards in our debates here: religion is not the cause of Inquisitions and atheism is not the cause of massacres. Evil men may use any arbitrary philosophy to underpin their causes. Wouldn’t you agree? Yes, anytime a government tries to enforce a specific ideology, philosophy or religion to the exclusion of all others it is not only anti-human and criminal but is ultimately self-destructive, and rarely successful at truly exterminating other ideologies anyway. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-does-not-equal-communism-and-vise-versa/324897/48 "2005-10-06T00:14:32Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Surely, we’ve long ago put to rest both old canards in our debates here: religion is not the cause of Inquisitions and atheism is not the cause of massacres. Evil men may use any arbitrary philosophy to underpin their causes. Splendidly put. Too often, however, out there in the non-Dope world (and even in threads here) an anti-Religion debater will say that within the range of “evil men using the philosophies at their disposal”, organized religion (sometimes naming the particular one whith which he has a beef) is such an ideal tool for it and has been so often used so, that it is still evil. Aggravating, really. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-does-not-equal-communism-and-vise-versa/324897/49 "2005-10-06T00:29:22Z")
I was probably the one who “trotted out” Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot. It was in response to another thread, which attempted to blame ALL evil on religon. I trotted these three people out as an example of religon per se not being the reason. If I remember, my take was that it was a desire for power. Communism had nothing to do with it, and neither did religion. It was all about power. > [@Liberal](#): > > Surely, we’ve long ago put to rest both old canards in our debates here: religion is not the cause of Inquisitions and atheism is not the cause of massacres. Evil men may use any arbitrary philosophy to underpin their causes. Wouldn’t you agree? For every Inquisition, there is a purge. For every Pizzaro, there is a Stalin. For every Torquemada, there is a Mao. Religion or no religion has little to do with it. Communism and fascism and religion are simply the tools that get twisted for personal gain. Hell, if communism was done the way Marx described it, it might have been a very good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-does-not-equal-communism-and-vise-versa/324897/50 "2005-10-06T00:45:45Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Hell, if communism was done the way Marx described it, it might have been a very good thing. Kind of like if Christianity is done the way Jesus taught it. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-does-not-equal-communism-and-vise-versa/324897/51 "2005-10-06T01:45:38Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Kind of like if Christianity is done the way Jesus taught it. Exactly. But that is a mighty big “if”. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-does-not-equal-communism-and-vise-versa/324897/52 "2005-10-06T13:47:13Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Kind of like if Christianity is done the way Jesus taught it. Which is how? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-does-not-equal-communism-and-vise-versa/324897/53 "2005-10-06T14:01:15Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > Which is how? You know, people actually _loving_ their neighbors instead of judging them and smiting them when they do ill; people doing unto others as they would have done unto themselves; that whole sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-does-not-equal-communism-and-vise-versa/324897/54 "2005-10-06T14:18:28Z")
> [@Jesus](#): > > But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. _Luke 19:23, KJV_ Of course, you’ll see a lot of rationalizing and cherry-picking of the portions of the “Good Book” that strike people as contrary to and incompatible with the love-and-snuggles version of Jesus/God they so adore, but the fact remains, how exactly Jesus wants a Christian to behave isn’t entirely clear, and never will be. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-does-not-equal-communism-and-vise-versa/324897/55 "2005-10-06T19:19:43Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > > [@Jesus](#): > > > > But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. > > _Luke 19:23, KJV_ > > Of course, you’ll see a lot of rationalizing and cherry-picking of the portions of the “Good Book” that strike people as contrary to and incompatible with the love-and-snuggles version of Jesus/God they so adore, but the fact remains, how exactly Jesus wants a Christian to behave isn’t entirely clear, and never will be. Luke 19:23, in the KJV is: “Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?” ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-does-not-equal-communism-and-vise-versa/324897/56 "2005-10-06T20:41:39Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Luke 19:23, in the KJV is: “Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?” Are you saying that passage is not in Luke, and hence have a point, or is this some kind of fucking irritating variant of Meldrum’s Corollary? Provide the correct passage then, scholar, or save the fucking snark for someone else. [[Luke 19 (KJV) - And [Jesus] entered and passed](http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Luk/Luk019.html)]Cite. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-does-not-equal-communism-and-vise-versa/324897/57 "2005-10-06T20:43:37Z")
Sorry. Messed up coding. [Cite.](http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Luk/Luk019.html) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-does-not-equal-communism-and-vise-versa/324897/58 "2005-10-06T21:21:04Z")
It’s Lk. 19:2 **7**. It’s the tagline to the Parable of the Minas (AKA the Parable of the Pounds) and is generally read by Christians as eschatological (i.e. it’s a reference to what will happen on the day of judgement), not as a command for Christians to go around smoking infidels. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-does-not-equal-communism-and-vise-versa/324897/59 "2005-10-06T21:32:37Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > It’s Lk. 19:2 **7**. > > It’s the tagline to the Parable of the Minas (AKA the Parable of the Pounds) and is generally read by Christians as eschatological (i.e. it’s a reference to what will happen on the day of judgement), not as a command for Christians to go around smoking infidels. And the point is? Is there not ambiguity? Do none construe it differently? Could the end times be now or later? Is this a particularly loving statement? Is Jesus asking them to be killed with kindness? Does anyone really know what it really means? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-does-not-equal-communism-and-vise-versa/324897/60 "2005-10-06T21:35:05Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > And the point is? Is there not ambiguity? Do none construe it differently? Could the end times be now or later? Is this a particularly loving statement? Is Jesus asking them to be killed with kindness? Does anyone really know what it really means? I’m not arguing with you. I agree that it’s a troubling quote (personally, I don’t think Jesus even said it). I’m just telling you what Christians will say if you try to corner them with it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-does-not-equal-communism-and-vise-versa/324897.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-does-not-equal-communism-and-vise-versa/324897.md?page=4)