# "Atheism Plus," the new New Atheism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 8, 2012, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085 "2012-09-08T09:47:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Robb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Robb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robb)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/21 "2012-09-08T12:51:42Z")
> [@ragerdude](#): > > I think part of the issue with “old atheism” and “old new atheism” is that it has been dominated by, and organized around, straight white men. The charge is that women, LGBT individuals, and people of color have been excluded to varying degrees. This strikes me as an interesting paragraph. What sort of organization does athieism have and how does it exclude the groups you list? If religion is the basis for a bunch of bad -isms, why would atheists be afflicted by those same bad -isms? Finally, I thought the most well-known atheist was a woman. Did she organize her group around straight, white men? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/22 "2012-09-08T12:52:36Z")
I’m still using Atheism XP and don’t plan to upgrade. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/23 "2012-09-08T13:21:16Z")
The + looks like a cross. You’ll just confuse the shit out of people. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/24 "2012-09-08T13:39:15Z")
> [@ragerdude](#): > > I think that’s exactly the point! Some want to choose the term that’s more provocative and vocal, to support the visibility of atheists, much along the lines of how “coming out” has helped the LGBT movement. Bringing up the term “atheist” in casual conversation is more offensive to my fundie family members than calling them “fucking cunts.” I’d rather not fight about terminology when the beliefs are the important thing. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/25 "2012-09-08T13:53:39Z")
Let me know when it’s out of beta testing. ---
**Author:** ![Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swords_to_Plowshares)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/26 "2012-09-08T14:46:04Z")
So they’re activists for social justice (and other secular causes) who happen to be atheists. I’m not terribly thrilled about the idea from a pragmatic standpoint. America has a very low opinion of atheists. Like really really low, if you look at political polls. And Atheist+ advocates for things that I care about. So if they get a lot of press, people will associate social justice with atheists. I would rather they divorce their politics from their non-religion. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/27 "2012-09-08T15:40:35Z")
> [@ragerdude](#): > > I think that’s exactly the point! Some want to choose the term that’s more provocative and vocal, to support the visibility of atheists, much along the lines of how “coming out” has helped the LGBT movement. You mean similar to how gays re-styled themselves as Gay Plus, which finally endeared them to the religious and patriarchal hegemonists after centuries of mindless oppression ? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/28 "2012-09-08T16:05:08Z")
> [@ragerdude](#): > > I think that’s exactly the point! Some want to choose the term that’s more provocative and vocal, to support the visibility of atheists, much along the lines of how “coming out” has helped the LGBT movement. Well, then it’s a flop. “Atheism Plus” is a term that will mostly annoy atheists. Atheism is a stance on deity. Secular Humanism is an ethic. We’re covered for terms. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/29 "2012-09-08T16:12:15Z")
This term will be very appealing… …to teenage atheists living in their parents’ basements. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/30 "2012-09-08T16:27:50Z")
> [@](#): > > We are… > Atheists plus we care about social justice, > Atheists plus we support women’s rights, > Atheists plus we protest racism, > Atheists plus we fight homophobia and transphobia, > Atheists plus we use critical thinking and skepticism. We are Batman? Personally, as one who worships Athe, I’m totally happy with the descriptor atheist. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/31 "2012-09-08T16:29:24Z")
Meh. By painting this movement as a “new” thing, with “plus” stuff, it kind of implies that atheists didn’t care about social justice and those other things before. “New and improved! Just like the OLD atheism, but now with compassion!” It’s as if they’re validating the common assumption that atheists didn’t have morals, but NOW, they DO. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/32 "2012-09-08T16:41:34Z")
Atheists aren’t a movement. Or, if they are, that’s a tiny subset of us. I doubt if many of us give a rat’s ass what other atheists think. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/33 "2012-09-08T16:42:42Z")
Atheism Plus™, now with extra compassion®! > [@John\_Mace](#): > > “We” makes it sound like a religion to me, or at best an organization. Count this atheist out. Yeah, I don’t need to be part of a Movement. It takes too much energy. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/34 "2012-09-08T16:59:25Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > Meh. By painting this movement as a “new” thing, with “plus” stuff, it kind of implies that atheists didn’t care about social justice and those other things before. “New and improved! Just like the OLD atheism, but now with compassion!” It’s as if they’re validating the common assumption that atheists didn’t have morals, but NOW, they DO. That’s a fair point IMO. To many people it will not look like “_atheist, plus_”, they will read it as “_atheist, **but** _”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/35 "2012-09-08T17:12:18Z")
Atheists for Jesus! ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/36 "2012-09-08T17:32:10Z")
Are declared atheists who don’t attend an atheist church non-practicing atheists? ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/37 "2012-09-08T17:52:40Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > Meh. By painting this movement as a “new” thing, with “plus” stuff, it kind of implies that atheists didn’t care about social justice and those other things before. “New and improved! Just like the OLD atheism, but now with compassion!” It’s as if they’re validating the common assumption that atheists didn’t have morals, but NOW, they DO. \*“We care about poverty, war, and injustice, Unlike the rest of you squares!” \* ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/38 "2012-09-08T18:42:33Z")
> [@ragerdude](#): > > What do you think of atheism+? Do you think it is a welcome addition, since atheism by itself can be insufficient to organize around? I think it’s a silly idea. There’s no reason to assume atheists have any common social program. And there’s no reason to assume that religious people don’t share the same social beliefs that the OP described. And why feel there’s some need to organize around atheism? Should atheists, Buddhists, Christians, Jews, and Muslims start organizing around their common non-belief in Hinduism? ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/39 "2012-09-08T18:43:34Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > All of these things are orthogonal to atheism. A person can do, or not do, any or all of these things while believing, disbelieving, or being unsure about or indifferent to, the existence of God. You win. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/40 "2012-09-08T18:43:47Z")
Alain de Botton: Atheism 2.0, a video on [TED.com](http://TED.com): [About twenty minutes long.](http://www.ted.com/talks/alain_de_botton_atheism_2_0.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085.md?page=3)