# "Atheism Plus," the new New Atheism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 8, 2012, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085 "2012-09-08T09:47:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/41 "2012-09-08T18:46:18Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > Meh. By painting this movement as a “new” thing, with “plus” stuff, it kind of implies that atheists didn’t care about social justice and those other things before. “New and improved! Just like the OLD atheism, but now with compassion!” It’s as if they’re validating the common assumption that atheists didn’t have morals, but NOW, they DO. That’s what I came to post. Or rather, I would have if I wasn’t an atheist and cared about anything else in the world besides myself. When I saw the thread title, I thought it would be about quasi-religious concepts, like Atheism + spirituality, to promote a kind of Atheism Lite. But even if it’s about morality, it’s a non-starter for the reason you gave. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/42 "2012-09-08T19:01:39Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Is there something called an “atheist heretic”? Someone who repudiates the doctrines of atheism? It is called theist. Because besides lacking God belief, there are no doctrines of atheism. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/43 "2012-09-08T19:04:54Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > There’s no reason to assume atheists have any common social program. Correct. Atheism is simply a single non-belief; “there’s no such things as gods”. Everything else is up in the air. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > And why feel there’s some need to organize around atheism? Arguably; to promote it as a good idea, and self defense against the people who hate atheists. I’d personally prefer to organize around something more general and goal oriented like secular humanism, though. That both gets you more people and accomplishes more. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/44 "2012-09-08T19:04:59Z")
> [@ragerdude](#): > > I think that part of the issue is that, strictly speaking, atheism is defined by what it doesn’t believe, not by what it believes. Thus, the emphasis on the “plus.” Imagine organizing a group of people around the simple fact that they disbelieve in leprechauns. That doesn’t tell you much about what else they have in common. Why organize people at all, except perhaps to protect our right to not believe. There is no other common ground. I believe that Karl Rove is an atheist, and he doesn’t support all the good things in the OP. Should he be excluded from the ranks? Called atheist minus? What kind of admissions test should be put into place? I thought the “Brights” were a bad idea, but this is worse. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/45 "2012-09-08T19:15:03Z")
Y3w this infers the common stereotype that “normal” atheists are not moral. All of their “causes” are well addressed by the core mammalian trait of empathy anyways. [We tend to be altruistic naturally](http://news.discovery.com/animals/chimps-share-110808.html) There is no need to perpetuate the falsehood that we have “no reason to be good” ---
**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/46 "2012-09-08T20:12:21Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > All of these things are orthogonal to atheism. A person can do, or not do, any or all of these things while believing, disbelieving, or being unsure about or indifferent to, the existence of God. So what? Are people who share multiple orthogonal beliefs not allowed to form groups? ---
**Author:** ![XRaeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/f14d63/32.png) [@XRaeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XRaeth)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/47 "2012-09-08T20:21:56Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Personally, as one who worships Athe, I’m totally happy with the descriptor atheist. You worship the [Association for Theatre in Higher Education](https://www.google.ca/search?q=athe&sugexp=chrome,mod=17&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)? _ducks and runs_ ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/48 "2012-09-08T20:40:02Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Is there something called an “atheist heretic”? Someone who repudiates the doctrines of atheism? Yup. Theist. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/49 "2012-09-08T20:58:20Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Are declared atheists who don’t attend an atheist church non-practicing atheists? Declared atheists who attend a church are non-practicing atheists aren’t they? Incidently, who is this referring to? > [@Robb](#): > > Finally, I thought the most well-known atheist was a woman. Did she organize her group around straight, white men? ---
**Author:** ![Robb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Robb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robb)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/50 "2012-09-08T21:13:23Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > Incidently, who is this referring to? Madalyn Murray O’Hair ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/51 "2012-09-08T21:24:28Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I thought the “Brights” were a bad idea, but this is worse. Having only skimmed material on the Brights, I’ve always thought it seemed like a perfectly decent set of ideals wrapped up with an almost-comically smug and alienating name. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/52 "2012-09-08T22:49:30Z")
Well if it’s half as successful as _Google_ Plus… ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/53 "2012-09-08T23:16:21Z")
> [@Robb](#): > > Madalyn Murray O’Hair Thanks, never heard of her- I can’t think of any female vocal atheists famous this side of the pond. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/54 "2012-09-08T23:30:09Z")
> [@ragerdude](#): > > From the following: [Atheism Plus: The New Wave of Atheism - Greta Christina's Blog](http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2012/08/20/atheism-plus-the-new-wave-of-atheism/) > > What do you think of atheism+? Do you think it is a welcome addition, since atheism by itself can be insufficient to organize around? I am reminded of [what C.S. Lewis wrote about “Christianity And.”](http://www.freebooks2u.net/fantasticfiction/2010/139/5926.html) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/55 "2012-09-08T23:33:37Z")
I would’ve thought “Atheism Plus” referred to [Antitheism.](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Antitheism) > [@](#): > > **Antitheism** is outspoken opposition to theism and religion. It is a subset of atheism which holds that theism and religion are harmful to society and people, and that if theistic beliefs were true, they would be undesirable. Antitheism asserts that religious and theistic beliefs are harmful, and that in areas where theism is innocuous, it should be discarded by people in favor of humanism, rationalism, and other alternatives. Not all opposition to religion is necessarily anti-theism, as one can be opposed to a particular religion without being opposed to religion in general. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/56 "2012-09-09T00:11:00Z")
I agree with all the stuff they’re against, but it really has nothing to do with not believing in gods. Kinda like saying I’m a cold-choclatiste: I eat chocolate ice cream and hate racism. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/57 "2012-09-09T00:56:17Z")
> [@gracer](#): > > Why not have “atheism plus puppies”? I’d agree to this. I have some good recipes for puppies. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/58 "2012-09-09T01:27:45Z")
Atheism plus kittens makes more sense. After all, we’re told that every time you masturbate God kills a kitten; there’s a natural alliance of interests here. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/59 "2012-09-09T02:19:34Z")
And the schism starts within a day. For thousands or years we’ll be killing each other over whether kittens or puppies, and their preferred cooking methods, are the correct doctrine. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085/60 "2012-09-09T03:28:04Z")
I don’t have much to add to the many responses here, but the concept being touted as “atheism plus” has already existed for a long time under other names like secular liberalism and secular humanism. They don’t need another name, nor do atheists need something to organize around. I’m really not interested in an atheist-only organization or movement. One of the things I like about being an atheist is nobody nags me to get up early on the weekends to go to meetings. My do-gooding doesn’t have to be oriented around atheism. And yes, it’s true that every time someone tries to come up with a better name for atheism, they choose something stunningly obnoxious. “A+” is even worse than “Bright,” and they both reek of people congratulating themselves for being very smart. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-plus-the-new-new-atheism/634085.md?page=4)