# Atheism vs. Toys for Tots **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 4, 2002, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-vs-toys-for-tots/126951 "2002-09-04T13:58:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-vs-toys-for-tots/126951/61 "2002-09-07T18:48:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by amarinth \* > \*\*They do not outright lie. If you designate that your money goes to “Fund X” supporte by the United Way, your money will go to “Fund X.” > > However, given the way that UW dispenses money, if you designate your dollars to go to “Fund X” and they do, then less money from the general undesignated pool goes to “Fund X” and some cash that would have gone to “Fund X” is distributed about to many different funds. (Or at least, that’s how it used to work.) \*\* Again…any evidence to support that notion… **especially** since all the distribution decisions are made at the **local** level? > [@](#): > > Who decides how United Way dollars are invested in the community? > Gifts to United Way are managed by local volunteers who review programs, visit with agency partners and set goals for strengthening our community, our children and our families to make sure contributors’ gifts are making the maximum impact possible. The initial point I was responding to had to do with **excluding** my money from a certain agency. If I don’t want my x # of dollars to go to Planned Parenthood (or the Boy Scouts…or whoever) , then my x # of dollars do not go that agency, but go somewhere else. The fact that **other** people’s money may go to Planned Parenthood or the Boy Scouts is irrelevant to me. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2002, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-vs-toys-for-tots/126951/62 "2002-09-08T04:26:04Z")
Looks to me like the moral high ground on this sucker is a fairly narrow ridge. First, never give money to a charity that you thing is not worthy of your charitable impulse. Second, never let anyone know what charity you have performed. Third, never let your own gain be a part of a charitable act. So, you have to find a charity you do find acceptable, and give twice as much to that as you would to the jeans bribe charity, no matter what that is. And you must never wear jeans to work again, no matter what charity is being pimped. (Although you may freely support those charities when it happens that you agree with their charitable impulse, but you must do so privately, away from work.) Then you have to make sure you never mention any of this to anyone at work. Does that help? Tris ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2002, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-vs-toys-for-tots/126951/63 "2002-09-08T16:44:12Z")
By the way, this particular moral high ground is also not one of those with a terrific view of all the land below. We are talking about a couple of bucks here, not a gift of time, or an investment of emotional significance. So, keep your spare change, and screw those little Christian kids. In July, while you are out in the weeds, in Afghanistan feeding the starving children of Muslims you can bask in the glow of your moral superiority. It’ll be great. Tris ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2002, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-vs-toys-for-tots/126951/64 "2002-09-08T20:02:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by beagledave \* > \*\*Again…any evidence to support that notion… **especially** since all the distribution decisions are made at the **local** level? \*\* I’m not sure what the distributions being made on the local level has to do with anything, and certainly am confused as to why it is important enough to be bolded. As I said, last time I checked, the distributions are not designated as a percentage of total collected, but as fixed dollar amounts to be taken from the money specifically designated and generally contributed. ---
**Author:** ![japatlgt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df705f/32.png) [@japatlgt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/japatlgt)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2002, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-vs-toys-for-tots/126951/65 "2002-09-08T20:59:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CRorex \* > \*\*Isn’t Toys for Tots that charity organized by the USMC? > > All in favor of sending a large constipated and subsequently il-tempered Gunnery Sergant to do some head smacking… \*\* AYE! ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-vs-toys-for-tots/126951/66 "2002-09-09T19:14:25Z")
**beagledave** - Sorry that I didn’t respond - not much Doping over the weekend. The basis for my post was the way it’s been explained to me for my local UW, United Way of Middle Tennessee. Your mileage may vary, of course. Also, the time I tried to designate my donation away from a UW agency (which was allowed, according the the UW pitch. UW said they’d take a 10% handling fee out and forward the rest to my charity of choice, the Nasville Humane Society) I had deductions taken from each check. When the time for the next pledge drive came, I checked with the Humane Society to verify that they’d been receiving thier donations, as I hadn’t heard from them. They hadn’t received anything from UW. When I asked UW for an explanation, it took three queries before I got a response, which was “We couldn’t find your pledge card so we put the money in the General Fund.” They had my pledge card to make the deductions, but not to disperse it as promised. And they didn’t offer to make it good and send the Nashville Humane the pledged money. That was the last time I donated to UW. StG ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-vs-toys-for-tots/126951/67 "2002-09-09T22:36:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by StGermain \* > \*\ ***beagledave** - Sorry that I didn’t respond - not much Doping over the weekend. The basis for my post was the way it’s been explained to me for my local UW, United Way of Middle Tennessee. Your mileage may vary, of course. Also, the time I tried to designate my donation away from a UW agency (which was allowed, according the the UW pitch. UW said they’d take a 10% handling fee out and forward the rest to my charity of choice, the Nasville Humane Society) I had deductions taken from each check. When the time for the next pledge drive came, I checked with the Humane Society to verify that they’d been receiving thier donations, as I hadn’t heard from them. They hadn’t received anything from UW. When I asked UW for an explanation, it took three queries before I got a response, which was “We couldn’t find your pledge card so we put the money in the General Fund.” They had my pledge card to make the deductions, but not to disperse it as promised. And they didn’t offer to make it good and send the Nashville Humane the pledged money. That was the last time I donated to UW. > > StG \*\* Well the fact that you had a bad experience with your **local** is too bad. However, as I’ve stated, several times…that has nothing to do with a \*\*different \*\* local United Way agency. So, saying that “They are going to distribute the money as they see fit. It’s fooling yourself if you think they know which dollar is yours.” is simply without foundation for MY local UW agency. BTW, just for shits and giggles, i went to the UW-Nashville [website](http://www.uwnashville.org/faq.html) (which i assume is yours?) … Notice what they say? > [@](#): > > 1. If I give a gift to a specific agency, how do I know that it got to that agency? > If you choose to give to a specific agency, then you have contributed through the United Way campaign. If we have your home address (supplied by you on the pledge card) United Way will send you a gift confirmation after we receive the your companyís campaign report. > > This confirmation lets you know we have received your gift and where your dollars were directed. We will make sure the gift is received at the agency you choose. United Way assumes that you have a relationship with that agency. We do not ask the agencies to report back to United Way on those specified gifts. Therefore, if you give a gift to a specific agency, we cannot report the agency or program results back to you, the donor, as we can with gifts to United Way. and > [@](#): > > 1. Can United Way tell me where my investment went and what difference it made? > Yes. United Way is sending communication to those donors who have given us their home address or e-mail AND contributed to United Way or one of the seven focus areas: 1) Assisting Seniors, 2) Building Strong Neighborhoods, 3) Caring for Children, 4) Helping People in Crisis, 5) Promoting Health and Healing, 6) Strengthening Youth and Families and 7) Supporting Work and Independence. > > A donor can also visit our website to view results. You can also view our website for a full listing of funded programs or call 615-255-8501 for a copy of the current yearís Guide To Funded Services. It’s a bit unclear if THIS local UW allows you to specifically EXCLUDE a certain agency (as my local UW does) To re-cap: You had a (one?) bad experience with some local UW volunteers or staff members. From this, you extrapolated that “They are going to distribute the money as they see fit. It’s fooling yourself if you think they know which dollar is yours.” The posted policies of my UW (and the Nashville UW) state otherwise…so again, not enough to make a sweeping generalization about the funding practices of all the various local UW agencies. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-vs-toys-for-tots/126951/68 "2002-09-10T02:44:57Z")
**beagledave** - Do you understand my analogy at all? What I mean is, they are going to give a certain amount of money to each designated UW agency. I don’t see anything that says that PP (or Boy Scouts or anyone else) will get less money, or that my charity of choice will get more money if I specifically designate it that way. So whether it’s my money or someone else’s, a dollar is a dollar is a dollar. I honestly don’t see the difference with the my money/your money thing. To me, once it’s in their hands, they disperse it. It’s as featureless as one spoon of water versus another. StG ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-vs-toys-for-tots/126951/69 "2002-09-10T14:58:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by I am Sparticus \* > \*\*Dogs and cats don’t need toys for the holidays, although sometimes they are pleased to get them. > > Children need toys for the holidays, they aren’t vermin after all. They need toys to stimulate their imaginations and to have fun with. Children also need Christmas, whether you make it religious or secular. “We’re athiests Tommy, we don’t decorate or give presents or fill our guts to overflowing”. Well, that is what the culture is, why inflict your beliefs on your children, your parents didn’t? The neighbor kids will make fun of them (kids are mean too). That doesn’t mean drag them to church, but expect to treat your own kids (if you have some) like kids, not angry college students out to prove a point. \*\* Ok, although this is off topic, I wanted to address this. The problem with your statement is that gives into the conspicuous consumerism model that is reaffiriming the mentality and mores that have gone awry. Children DON’T need toys for the holidays. They do however require toys and books and food and shelter that are going to help growth. The ideals that you are proposing are quasi-proselytizing by means that “since everyone else is Christian, you’re a pariah and either better stop thinking for yourself or start fitting in the mold”. If one’s raising a kid to blend in with society, I feel sorry for that child. Teach a child to understand how society works and then teach them to transcend it into a more ethical realm instead of pacifying their whims by buying them whatever they want. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-vs-toys-for-tots/126951/70 "2002-09-10T15:33:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Teach a child to understand how society works and then teach them to transcend it into a more ethical realm instead of pacifying their whims by buying them whatever they want. That’s cold, man. Really cold. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2025, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-vs-toys-for-tots/126951/72 "2025-12-05T06:21:47Z")
I think the kids may have kids of their own by now. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2025, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-vs-toys-for-tots/126951/73 "2025-12-05T08:29:42Z")
Don’t you hate it when they delete the spam or troll and it makes _you_ look like the crazy person? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2025, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-vs-toys-for-tots/126951/74 "2025-12-05T09:55:46Z")
I normally look like that anyway, so it doesn’t make much difference. To breathe a little life into this zombie - my daughter’s primary school did that whole “shoebox full of gifts” thing for Samaritan’s Purse, which is Franklin Graham’s side hustle and an organisation with a long history of using the distribution of these gifts to to actively proselytise, sometimes in a “no gifts until you praise Jesus” sort of way. I, and some other parents, did object to this choice of charity, particularly given Graham’s habit of double-dipping on full-time salaries on top. “Toys for Tots”, however - I can’t get too worked up about them. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2025, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-vs-toys-for-tots/126951/75 "2025-12-05T19:33:18Z")
As some who works for a moderately sized nonprofit…who is currently in the midst of about two dozen food and gift drives…I’d have a lot to say on this….but this is really too much of a zombie thread. I will say there’s a comedian with a funny bit “I used to be a Marine and the highlight of every year was doing Toys for Tots. And just so you know, if you ever donated anything really cool to Toys for Tots….it never made it to any kids. Never.” ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2025, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-vs-toys-for-tots/126951/76 "2025-12-05T19:54:14Z")
No adult believes in Santa so I think as an Atheist celebrating Xmas is a great way to have a fun time with kids AND show them adults confirm lies so others will obey. Win win. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism-vs-toys-for-tots/126951.md?page=3)