# Atheism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 4, 2013, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288 "2013-02-04T04:58:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/361 "2013-02-06T03:03:46Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I agree, atheists don’t really exist. But God does. Now that we cleared up the definition of atheists…what should we tackle next. I am an atheist. I do not believe that your god exists. Are you saying that I am not telling the truth? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/362 "2013-02-06T03:05:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How many solipsists does it take to screw in a lightbulb? In a lightbulb or out of a lightbulb, it doesn’t matter. It still takes two to screw, even for solipsists. Any fewer and it’s just masturbation. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/363 "2013-02-06T03:07:14Z")
Where is the Like button? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/364 "2013-02-06T03:10:55Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I agree, atheists don’t really exist. But God does. Now that we cleared up the definition of atheists…what should we tackle next. We could repeat this bit until it becomes clever, but I don’t have the strength to see that effort through. ---
**Author:** ![koufax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@koufax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koufax)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/365 "2013-02-06T03:52:00Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > Real atheist here - I do not believe that physical matter came out of nothing, nor do I believe there was a first cause. > > You can doubt all you want, it doesn’t matter to me. Then what or where did it come from? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/366 "2013-02-06T03:58:06Z")
> [@koufax](#): > > Then what or where did it come from? Why don’t you go start a separate thread on that subject, because it’s got fuck-all to do with atheism? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/367 "2013-02-06T04:08:32Z")
> [@koufax](#): > > Then what or where did it come from? Where did your deity come from? I asked you a similar question way back in post #8. Please answer this time. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/368 "2013-02-06T04:12:52Z")
> [@koufax](#): > > Then what or where did it come from? It was extracted as ylem from the primeval nothingness by enslaved daemons, then reworked into hydrogen in celestial sweatshops by unpaid illegal immigrant imps and sent to Interdimensional Unlimited’s Universe Manufactory for final transdimensional compression and use. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/369 "2013-02-06T04:16:04Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It was extracted as ylem from the primeval nothingness by enslaved daemons, then reworked into hydrogen in celestial sweatshops by unpaid illegal immigrant imps and sent to Interdimensional Unlimited’s Universe Manufactory for final transdimensional compression and use. Woah. Woah woah woah. Woah. I **CANNOT** get on board with this, man. They’re _migrant worker_ imps. Show some respect. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/370 "2013-02-06T04:41:22Z")
> [@koufax](#): > > OP here again and I apologize for what I started although I have learned two new cool words… Misotheists and Dystheists. No need for an apology, this has been an interesting thread. And you learned a couple of new words, besides. Win for everyone. > [@](#): > > So I would like to ask the people on here who consider themselves REAL atheists as defined by someone who does not believe in “god” (or whatever you want to call it), do you believe that physical matter came out of NOTHING with ABSOLUTELY NO FIRST CAUSE? > > Please answer with a simple “yes” if you believe this happened. > > If you answer with more than “yes” I doubt if you are a real atheist. > > (Something tells me, I am going to regret this post) I don’t know. Is that an allowable answer? If not, _why_ not? Because I can neither answer ‘Yes’ nor ‘No’ to the question, as you’ve framed it. I also have a problem with this: “If you answer with more than “yes” I doubt if you are a real atheist.” So you are defining ‘atheist’ as someone who _must_ believe “that physical matter came out of NOTHING with ABSOLUTELY NO FIRST CAUSE”? What does that have to do with ‘atheism’? If you are defining ‘atheism’ like that, then it’s no wonder you cannot understand the concept. Just ask **pchaos**. If your definitions are fucked relative to reality, your understanding will be equally fucked. Both of you are having trouble understanding, because you refuse to abandon your preconceived notions, even when they have been proven to be wrong. It’s not my fault that you insist on ‘understanding’ something through wrongheaded, totally false models of what you are trying to understand. You will never understand, until you abandon the false model you insist on fitting it into. Atheism _doesn’t fit_ into the model you are trying to fit it into. And you will _never_ understand it, until you stop trying to fit that square peg into the round hole you want it to fit into. It’s a square peg. It’s never going to fit into your round hole. You will achieve better understanding by examining, and trying to understand the peg. Ignore your fucking hole. It isn’t relevant, and is probably wrong. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/371 "2013-02-06T04:50:01Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > What a coincidence. To me, a “real Christian” is someone who believes in the divinity of Jesus and only eats pistachio ice cream on Thursday. Do you mean someone who eats pistachio ice cream only on Thursdays, and never on any other day, or do you mean someone who never eats anything on Thursdays except pistachio ice cream , but who can, if so desired, eat pistachio ice cream on other days as well? ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/372 "2013-02-06T04:55:28Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > Do you mean someone who eats pistachio ice cream only on Thursdays, and never on any other day, or do you mean someone who never eats anything on Thursdays except pistachio ice cream , but who can, if so desired, eat pistachio ice cream on other days as well? I’m too lazy to wait for someone to set me up, so I’ll just do it: > [@Imaginary Reply](#): > > Never eats anything on Thursdays except pistachio ice cream. Splitter! Why thanks, Jragon, for that joke. You’re so funny and original. Is that because you’re so athy? Why yes, me, I’m the athiest. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/373 "2013-02-06T05:36:17Z")
> [@For You](#): > > You do realize that **koufax** was trying to be ironic, right? You do realize that I was being sarcastic right? ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/374 "2013-02-06T05:41:12Z")
It’s kind of hard to tell satire from earnest statement sometimes. Poe’s Law and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/375 "2013-02-06T05:47:41Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > It’s only a contradiction if he has all three of the big omnis. He could be omniscient and omnipotent . . . While I very definitely agree with your analysis, mine is somewhat different. I believe that “omnipotent” is, itself, meaningless. “God is infinitely powerful.” No, he isn’t. Infinite power cannot exist…or even be defined. Can God unleash 10^9999 Joules of energy? That would flash-vaporize the entire known cosmos; what, then, is supposed to happen if he unleashes 10^99999 Joules? And that isn’t even starting to get up into the realm of “infinite.” Same with omniscience: can he know everything? Can he know all that he knows? Can he know that he knows all that he knows? Name me the trillionth prime number. The 10^trillion-th prime number. etc. Again, the very concept is meaningless. This is a bit academic, since I am comfortably agnostic regarding a lesser God that can wield “only” 10^9999 Joules, or who “only” knows the first trillion prime numbers. Such power is arbitrarily large, enough to accomplish pretty much any definable task. It just doesn’t fall into the stupid trap of being claimed to be “infinite.” Such an entity is not logically inconsistent. Such an entity could exist. I’ve just never seen any evidence that it does. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/376 "2013-02-06T07:27:19Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I’m pretty damn sure that the omnipotent and omniscient variety of God does not exist, because I consider the concepts to be logically self-contradictory. A triangle with five angles cannot exist, for somewhat the same reason. > > As for smaller gods, godlets, spirits, ghosts, and ha’nts, I’m comfortable with “weak atheism.” But when you posit an entity that “knows everything,” strong atheism kicks in, big time. That’s exactly why the claim that atheists must prove all gods don’t exist is so bogus. You can do it for some varieties, but I can make up a million we know nothing about. And except for not having a temple, they are just as valid, if not more so, than the ones some people worship. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/377 "2013-02-06T07:31:45Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Dammit! Scooped by **Voyager**! > > I’m at work, doing multiple shows throughout the day, and sometimes I open a reply window and then can’t finish what I’m typing for a while. So sometimes I get ninaj’d. See, being home sick has some advantages. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/378 "2013-02-06T13:05:55Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Okay, I pretty much agree with Human Action. At one time I was a misotheist, but I’ve forgiven God and now I’m a Christian. I bet God was real pleased that you forgave him for your knowing more than he? ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/379 "2013-02-06T13:15:29Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I agree, but Czarcasm wants me to accept his and I have because it is as good as any. I don’t see Czarcasm wanting you to accept his. Just giving his reason’s for non-belief. Most Athiests that Iknow came to their thinking by studing the bible and various religions and saw the contradictions, and realized that truth cannot be contradictory, it can be different at times, but not contradictory, like one can say in truth,:It is raining here" while another can say"it is snowing here" another say “it is sunny and hot”, all speak the truth.but live in different parts of the world, so in their circumstance it is true for each of them. But for 3 people who would all stand in the same spot said the same thing, only one of them would be speaking the truth. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/380 "2013-02-06T13:21:09Z")
At one time I was a misertheist, but my friends were all like “Hey Finn, stop bogarting all the gods!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288.md?page=20)