# Atheism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 4, 2013, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288 "2013-02-04T04:58:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Other\_Dreams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Other\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Other_Dreams)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/21 "2013-02-04T10:51:37Z")
> [@Nancarrow](#): > > Quick hijack: > > You’d better take this up with the mods toot sweet. Having two accounts is strictly verboten and grounds for banning, but if you make it clear it’s an honest mistake they’ll be helpful in getting your old account back (or moving you to the new one, or something, I dunno I’m not One Of Them). Hijack continued: Oops! :smack: Good thing I mentioned it, then. I’ll contact them now…um…well I’ll just contact the first ‘One of Them’ I can find (ha ha). **Please Return to Your Regularly Scheduled Debate.** ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/22 "2013-02-04T11:18:28Z")
How can you mess up the definition of atheism? It really is right there in the name itself. You need not go any further than that. What about atheism has anything to do with matter and whether or not matter ever came from something or from nothing? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/23 "2013-02-04T12:18:23Z")
> [@koufax](#): > > . . . they don’t seem to explain how they believe that matter just came out of nothing with no cause. How do you explain how your God “just came out of nothing with no cause”? (Or aren’t you a REAL Deist?) ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/24 "2013-02-04T12:27:01Z")
If the label doesn’t seem to fit you, then don’t use it to describe yourself. Youtube videos? On-line videos are put together by crackpots and exhibitionists who don’t have the patience to write a book, but who feel they need to get their vapid ramblings out to the public. Get yourself some books instead. Of course, it is very difficult for many folks to explain why they don’t believe in something without seeming to be dismissive of those who do. If you narrow your definition "people who want to’explain how they believe that matter just came out of nothing with no cause’ " then you are going to find very few reference works. Most atheists are either agnostic or indifferent to The Ultimate Cause, and accept that we just might not ever devise the theory to explain or the math to describe how everything started. They just don’t feel the need to slap a “God Did It” label on something merely because they can’t understand it yet. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAlecCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SmartAlecCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlecCat)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/25 "2013-02-04T12:46:57Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Youtube videos? On-line videos are put together by crackpots and exhibitionists who don’t have the patience to write a book, but who feel they need to get their vapid ramblings out to the public. There is more on youtube than that: [Richard Feynman on God](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YltEym9H0x4) [Carl Sagan on God](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E-_DdX8Ke0) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/26 "2013-02-04T13:09:01Z")
> [@koufax](#): > > I consider myself a Deist because I cannot get rid of the belief that something caused all of this, even though it doesn’t care about its creation and allows everything to happen randomly. This sounds like the “Watchmaker Proof” for the existence of a Creator: that our world _looks like_ something that was designed by Someone, rather than something that just happened of its own accord. So the answer is that, to atheists, either the world _doesn’t_ look like someone designed it, or they have an explanation that they find satisfying for how what looks like “clockwork” or design actually could have arisen naturally (such as using undirected Darwinian evolution to explain the varieties of life). (Or, I suppose, another alternative is that they could take it on faith that there is no God of any sort.) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/27 "2013-02-04T13:12:32Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > How do you explain how your God “just came out of nothing with no cause”? > > (Or aren’t you a REAL Deist?) It’s deities all the way down. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/28 "2013-02-04T13:25:38Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > As far as we know, matter did “come out of nothing” in the Big Bang. How that happened isn’t understood. > > But just because we don’t know how it happened doesn’t mean the default assumption is that some supernatural being must have caused it. A lot of atheists are OK with leaving it at just that: we don’t know (but a supernatural being is much more complicated, and hence much more improbable, than some kind of natural process). Isn’t that the agnostic position? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/29 "2013-02-04T13:33:33Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > The same principle that allows the creation of Virtual Particles out of quantum vacuum fluctuations. It is my understanding that that the particles are not created, but relocated. Isn’t that right? ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/30 "2013-02-04T13:48:32Z")
So we don’t get to not believe in the Judeo-Christian God until we’ve answered every possible question that anyone could ever ask? Who makes up these rules? Anyway, back to the atheist lab. We have work to do. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/31 "2013-02-04T13:58:33Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > So we don’t get to not believe in the Judeo-Christian God until we’ve answered every possible question that anyone could ever ask? Whom is this in response to? The OP certainly didn’t say anything about the Judeo-Christian God. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/32 "2013-02-04T14:00:16Z")
> [@koufax](#): > > I am trying to find videos on you tube or anywhere for that matter that can explain how someone can actually be a REAL atheist. An atheist is a person who doesn’t believe in God. That’s it. There are plenty of atheists out there. > [@koufax](#): > > All I can seem to find is “atheists” who point out how ridiculous most religious teachings are (which I completely agree with) but they don’t seem to explain how they believe that matter just came out of nothing with no cause. Do those ‘atheists’ not believe in a God? If so, then they are ‘real’ atheists. As to the origin of matter, that’s pretty much a side issue. To be a consistent atheist, the simplest answer to that would be ‘I don’t know’. > [@koufax](#): > > I consider myself a Deist because I cannot get rid of the belief that something caused all of this, even though it doesn’t care about its creation and allows everything to happen randomly. If everything happens randomly then why wouldn’t the origin of the universe be random? Also, why does this universe creator have to be sentient? > [@koufax](#): > > So, are there, in fact REAL atheists who believe that life and matter just occurred out of nothing or are these “atheists” like me and are in fact Deists? I’m an atheist and I do not believe that matter just occurred out of nothing. I do not believe in a cosmic origin in the same manner that you apparently do. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/33 "2013-02-04T14:01:05Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Isn’t that the agnostic position? No, an agnostic’s “we don’t know” refers to the existence of God specifically. Not as in “I don’t know how a lightbulb works. But it \* could\* be God doing it or physical law, I just don’t know” ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/34 "2013-02-04T14:07:24Z")
When I look into my heart there is no belief in God. I never chose to be an atheist. Belief was eroded and chipped at until I woke up one day without, and what’s more, realized I didn’t need it to live a fulfilling, healthy, happy life. The rest of it - my beliefs about the origin of the universe - are a totally separate kettle of fish. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/35 "2013-02-04T14:15:21Z")
> [@koufax](#): > > I am trying to find videos on you tube or anywhere for that matter that can explain how someone can actually be a REAL atheist. The depth of the idiocy of this question seems to have escaped those who have wasted time trying to answer it. “I am so stupid, illiterate and lazy as to be unable to read anything, so I am searching the world’s visual trash heap trying to answer one of the world’s great ethical/philosophical questions by finding a vid-EE-o that conforms to my limited concepts of how someone who says there ain’t no god justifies hisself.” Next up: looking through Chick publications for an explanation of why some peanuts have three nuts instead of two. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/36 "2013-02-04T14:20:22Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Isn’t that the agnostic position? No- atheists don’t believe in a god or gods; this does not preclude an absence of certainty about the circumstances surrounding the origin of the universe. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/37 "2013-02-04T14:22:45Z")
Coming to the SDMB to find YouTube videos of debates is like going to Saks 5th Avenue to get directions to the Dollar Store. But to the question at hand: > [@koufax](#): > > I consider myself a Deist because I cannot get rid of the belief that something caused all of this, even though it doesn’t care about its creation and allows everything to happen randomly. You are making a leap that is completely unsupported. You are going from “I don’t know how it happened” to “A deity did it”. No doubt this is because our religion-impregnated society has ingrained this idea into you. But I bet with further thought you will realize that it simply does not follow. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/38 "2013-02-04T14:38:27Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > It is my understanding that that the particles are not created, but relocated. Isn’t that right? Nope, that’s wrong. They are created out of quantum vacuum fluctuations, as I said. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/39 "2013-02-04T14:40:53Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > No, an agnostic’s “we don’t know” refers to the existence of God specifically. > > Not as in “I don’t know how a lightbulb works. But it \* could\* be God doing it or physical law, I just don’t know” That’s what Colibri said, no? [QUOTE=Colibri] But just because we don’t know how it happened doesn’t mean the default assumption is that some supernatural being must have caused it. A lot of atheists are OK with leaving it at just that: we don’t know (but a supernatural being is much more complicated, and hence much more improbable, than some kind of natural process). [/QUOTE] The question is one’s position on the existence of God, a Creator. And it seems to me that what Colibri offered here describes an agnostic. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/40 "2013-02-04T14:42:00Z")
> [@koufax](#): > > I consider myself a Deist because I cannot get rid of the belief that something caused all of this, even though it doesn’t care about its creation and allows everything to happen randomly. This is not a silly position to hold; it’s the same way I felt when I was younger (and also described myself as a deist). The problem with this position is that something must have caused the something that caused the universe to exist. And something else must have caused the something that caused the something, and so on, _ad infinitum_. If you can’t accept a natural, random (though not fully explained) origin for the universe, you can’t accept one for whatever you think created the universe either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288.md?page=3)