# Atheism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 4, 2013, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288 "2013-02-04T04:58:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/401 "2013-02-06T15:44:19Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > There are negative connotations surrounding atheists, your battle will be to show that they are inaccurate…so there’s no reason to be shocked when the inevitable battles occur. People who choose to fight this battle are not people I spend time worrying about. There is no inevitable battle. Unless you have a private definition of “inevitable” that you’re not sharing with us. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/402 "2013-02-06T15:55:13Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I don’t think I should lie about my beliefs so as to avoid discussing or defending them. That’s inauthentic, perhaps even cowardly, and certainly dishonest. Certainly, I wouldn’t want you to lie about your beliefs. An empiricist uses scientific methods on a daily basis. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/403 "2013-02-06T15:57:30Z")
I haven’t read all twenty pages of this thread, but just wanted to suggest a subscription to user “qualiasoup” on you tube. He has quite a few nice (and easily digestible) videos on critical thinking, secularism and atheism. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/404 "2013-02-06T15:58:07Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Certainly, I wouldn’t want you to lie about your beliefs. An empiricist uses scientific methods on a daily basis. You seem unable to listen to what people are telling you with regard to atheism, and now, empiricism. My suggestion is that you do not engage in religious discussions. I think they might be too complex for you. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/405 "2013-02-06T15:59:15Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I don’t think I should lie about my beliefs so as to avoid discussing or defending them. That’s inauthentic, perhaps even cowardly, and certainly dishonest. I am perfectly happy to lie about my _lack_ of belief to avoid discussing them with the sort of people who don’t take such discussion well. It’s not a big deal to me; I mean, the god I don’t believe in isn’t going to strike me down for pretending I _do_. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/406 "2013-02-06T16:01:25Z")
For want of a dictionary, a comprehensible discussion was lost. **pchaos** , your definition of empiricist is inaccurate. However, even under your definition, I cannot understand how “empiricist” could substitute adequately for “atheist.” Furthermore, non-atheists are not troubled by whether other people use scientific methods on a daily basis. They are troubled that other people do not believe in god. Your solution will fail to prevent any conflicts. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/407 "2013-02-06T16:10:57Z")
> [@doubleminus](#): > > I think that an atheist can easily say “I don’t know how the universe was created. I’m as curious as anyone”. Or even more easily, “I don’t know how the universe was created, and I don’t give a rat’s ass.” Whether or not it was the Big Bang, a cosmological accident or Big Daddy saying “Let there be noise”, it makes no difference to me or my work (to paraphrase Sherlock Holmes). ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/408 "2013-02-06T16:11:43Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Certainly, I wouldn’t want you to lie about your beliefs. So, would you advise an atheist who is not an empiricist to describe themselves as one to avoid negative connotations? > [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > I am perfectly happy to lie about my _lack_ of belief to avoid discussing them with the sort of people who don’t take such discussion well. It’s not a big deal to me; I mean, the god I don’t believe in isn’t going to strike me down for pretending I _do_. YMMV, I suppose. I can’t imagine falsely claiming to be religious for the sake of convenience (as opposed to declining to discuss the matter), but I’m sure we’ve had different life experiences that inform our views on this. > [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > Furthermore, non-atheists are not troubled by whether other people use scientific methods on a daily basis. They are troubled that other people do not believe in god. Your solution will fail to prevent any conflicts. Exactly so. **pchaos** , you yourself claimed to believe in a rational universe; it’s not the existence of principles like rationalism and empiricism that seems to bother you, it’s that their application leads some to conclude that there is no god. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/409 "2013-02-06T16:19:01Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I can’t imagine falsely claiming to be religious for the sake of convenience (as opposed to declining to discuss the matter), but I’m sure we’ve had different life experiences that inform our views on this. In west Texas, that’s a survival skill for us atheists. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/410 "2013-02-06T16:25:30Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > In west Texas, that’s a survival skill for us atheists. It would seem that being religious has some real-life negative connotations. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/411 "2013-02-06T16:26:34Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > There are negative connotations surrounding atheists, your battle will be to show that they are inaccurate…so there’s no reason to be shocked when the inevitable battles occur. If there are negative connotations surrounding Blacks, should I lie about my skin color or ancestry in order to avoid battles, or should I declare myself in order to expose the misconceptions and educate the prejudiced? Why should the Godless hide who they are and allow ignorance to continue? (removed an unnecessarily hostile word) ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/412 "2013-02-06T16:30:23Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > In west Texas, that’s a survival skill for us atheists. I’m in Southern Baptist country here in Kentucky, and I’ve never felt threatened. Lucky me, I guess. I generally just refrain from religious conversations with strangers outside the Internet. Plus, I’m well-armed. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/413 "2013-02-06T16:30:53Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > It would seem that being religious has some real-life negative connotations. so say we all ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/414 "2013-02-06T16:32:59Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Why should the Godless hide who they are and allow ignorance to continue? Because each of us needs to determine for his or her self, just how much we’re willing to sacrifice for ‘the cause’. Believe me, [I’ve pondered this issue at great length and in great depth.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=652772) ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/415 "2013-02-06T16:38:17Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Because each of us needs to determine for his or her self, just how much we’re willing to sacrifice for ‘the cause’. Believe me, [I’ve pondered this issue at great length and in great depth.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=652772) Fair enough, that’s part of authenticity. Do you view atheism as a cause? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/416 "2013-02-06T17:39:16Z")
Nah. I view full societal acceptance of atheists as a cause. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/417 "2013-02-06T17:41:51Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Nah. I view full societal acceptance of atheists as a cause. Ok, I can get on board with that. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/418 "2013-02-06T18:09:41Z")
**Finn** , I remember that thread. How do you feel about how you handled things now? > [@Human\_Action](#): > > YMMV, I suppose. I can’t imagine falsely claiming to be religious for the sake of convenience (as opposed to declining to discuss the matter), but I’m sure we’ve had different life experiences that inform our views on this. I haven’t actually claimed to be religious\*. There have just been some times when I downplayed my lack of faith. \*I did once claim to be a Satanists to get rid of some Jehovah’s Witnesses. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/419 "2013-02-06T18:12:18Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > You keep using that word. > > What do you believe that the word “empirical” means? Or for that matter “empiricist”? If you look up “empiricist” in the dictionary, one of the usages is equivalent to “medical quack”, a person who rejects research in favor of personal empirical experience. In that respect, there is a sort of subtle slur being perpetrated by those who encourage equating empiricism with atheism. > [@pchaos](#): > > There are negative connotations surrounding atheists, your battle will be to show that they are inaccurate…so there’s no reason to be shocked when the inevitable battles occur. The only negative connotation associated with atheism is placed there by religious asshole clerics who want their believers to believe that believing in what they believe is the only believable belief system and that everything else is just evil satan-thrall. So the only negative to atheism is entirely manufactured. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/420 "2013-02-06T18:13:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > **Finn** , I remember that thread. How do you feel about how you handled things now? To be honest, I’m still highly ambivalent. I’m also working in central Texas currently, but I’ve already scheduled a personal day for Graduation Day at my old school, and I"ll be heading back to help with the ceremonies. I’m going to check in on that student. I guess the real acid test of my actions will be whether or not he thinks I gave him helpful or harmful advice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288.md?page=22)