# Atheism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 4, 2013, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288 "2013-02-04T04:58:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/61 "2013-02-04T15:41:42Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > An atheist would say “I don’t know but I’m sure it’s not a god that caused it.” No, one can be an atheist without being sure of anything. An atheist is one without the _belief_ in the existence of any gods. That’s it. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/62 "2013-02-04T15:45:02Z")
I’m wondering if the OP will return to help provide any further shape to this iteration of the conversation, or if this version will morph into just another turtle. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/63 "2013-02-04T15:49:19Z")
In some belief systems, the universe rests on the back of a turtle, swimming through a primordial sea. Hey, maybe _we_ created the universe! I just blew my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/64 "2013-02-04T15:54:57Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Here’s the deal, atheists have managed to denigrate religion with many of it’s absurdities. But have they created an ethical system to replace it? > > Ayn Rand’s Objectivism at least attempted to build a new ethical system. Do atheists have anything similar? Many qualities are innate, and being nurtured by loving parents, siblings and a decent environment to live in, you have an excellent chance to contribute much good to yourself, others, and to society unless you’re born with some serious mental disorder. You don’t discover it in a book to read, where you realize, oh that’s what I’m supposed to do and not do. I’m sure glad I read “thou shall not kill” because I was going to beat the livin’ hell out of ya before I seen this. I really didn’t know any better, and was just too stupid not to know that others would prefer not to be murdered. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/65 "2013-02-04T15:55:18Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > No, one can be an atheist without being sure of anything. Hopefully, that’s not the ideal you are striving for…with that attitude you could easily end up sleeping all day and night. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/66 "2013-02-04T16:00:37Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Hopefully, that’s not the ideal you are striving for…with that attitude you could easily end up sleeping all day and night. You really need to purge everything you think you know about atheists and atheism- your pre-conceived notions are making it very difficult for actual correct information to take hold inside your brain. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/67 "2013-02-04T16:05:28Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > As far as we know, matter did “come out of nothing” in the Big Bang. How that happened isn’t understood. > > But just because we don’t know how it happened doesn’t mean the default assumption is that some supernatural being must have caused it. A lot of atheists are OK with leaving it at just that: we don’t know (but a supernatural being is much more complicated, and hence much more improbable, than some kind of natural process). As I see it, if God is a being, he would first have to have a place to be, if there were no place in which to exist, then nothing would be in existance. In order for anyhting to exist it has to be in existence, and one coud ask, who or what created existence? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/68 "2013-02-04T16:05:50Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Hopefully, that’s not the ideal you are striving for…with that attitude you could easily end up sleeping all day and night. With all that you have been directly told about atheism in the threads you’ve participated in, with all the times in those threads you’ve been corrected as to your beliefs about atheism, I need to know if any progress has been made. How do you currently define “atheism”? ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/69 "2013-02-04T16:12:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > With all that you have been directly told about atheism in the threads you’ve participated in, with all the times in those threads you’ve been corrected as to your beliefs about atheism, I need to know if any progress has been made. How do you currently define “atheism”? I’m still working on a definition. But it seems strange to me that in the extreme, atheism and Christianity have things in common. I run into some Christians that think that all you need to do is “accept Jesus as your Savior.” Taken to the extreme you can accept Him as your Savior and lie in bed all day. I suppose that if you take atheism to the extreme by questioning everything, you can also end up in bed all day and night. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/70 "2013-02-04T16:17:13Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I’m still working on a definition. Then I humbly request that until you figure out what it means, _you quit using the word._ ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/71 "2013-02-04T16:17:42Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Hopefully, that’s not the ideal you are striving for…with that attitude you could easily end up sleeping all day and night. God Lord, how does that follow? Is the fear of God the only thing that makes you get out of bed? What about your responsibility to your family to earn a living, your responsibilty to society to not be a productive member, your responsibility to yourself to use your mind and hands to better your situation? If this is all the life we get, EVERYTHING we do is essential, and we are ethically obligated to provide for our fellow humans. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/72 "2013-02-04T16:23:39Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I suppose that if you take atheism to the extreme by questioning everything, you can also end up in bed all day and night. Why would we? We like to eat food, we like to do things with our friends, many of us enjoy our work. Why would we stay in bed until we die of starvation, just because we’re willing to acknowledge that we can’t be _totally_ sure about anything we think we know? Atheism =/= Nihilism. You don’t seem to be getting it, here. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/73 "2013-02-04T16:24:55Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > God Lord, how does that follow? > > Is the fear of God the only thing that makes you get out of bed? What about your responsibility to your family to earn a living, your responsibilty to society to not be a productive member, your responsibility to yourself to use your mind and hands to better your situation? > > If this is all the life we get, EVERYTHING we do is essential, and we are ethically obligated to provide for our fellow humans. Actually, he seems to be suggesting that **absolute certainty** is what allows people to get out of bed in the morning. How about it, **pchaos**? Has the day unfolded _exactly_ as you knew it would this morning before you got out of bed? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/74 "2013-02-04T16:25:24Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Ayn Rand’s Objectivism at least attempted to build a new ethical system. Do atheists have anything similar? Ayn Rand _ **was** _ an atheist. I’m not entirely sure what point you’re trying to make, here. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/75 "2013-02-04T16:39:38Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Here’s the deal, atheists have managed to denigrate religion with many of it’s absurdities. But have they created an ethical system to replace it? Believing that atheism seeks to, or is mandated to, “replace” religion is your first mistake. Of many. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/76 "2013-02-04T17:00:54Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I’m still working on a definition. But it seems strange to me that in the extreme, atheism and Christianity have things in common. I run into some Christians that think that all you need to do is “accept Jesus as your Savior.” Taken to the extreme you can accept Him as your Savior and lie in bed all day. I suppose that if you take atheism to the extreme by questioning everything, you can also end up in bed all day and night. You’re still trying to see atheism and religion as two sides of the same coin- they’re not. It doesn’t follow that from atheism one could be lead to “questioning everything”, at least not in the sense you appear to be using it. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/77 "2013-02-04T17:16:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You’re still trying to see atheism and religion as two sides of the same coin- they’re not. It doesn’t follow that from atheism one could be lead to “questioning everything”, at least not in the sense you appear to be using it. And since when is “questioning everything” a bad thing? blind acceptance (seems to be what pchaos is arguing for) is much worse of a way to live life. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/78 "2013-02-04T17:16:42Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Hopefully, that’s not the ideal you are striving for…with that attitude you could easily end up sleeping all day and night. I didn’t mention any ideals; what are you talking about? I wrote what makes one an atheist. What ideals an atheist may have can vary tremendously from another as all they necessarily have in common is not having a belief in the existence of any gods. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/79 "2013-02-04T17:24:35Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > Yes, the OP and yes, I did assume he was talking about the traditional God we all know and love since he calls himself a “Deist.” Deism, as opposed to Theism, is commonly understood as belief in a Creator God who set the universe in motion but since then has let it run by itself without His active interference. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/80 "2013-02-04T17:29:15Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Here’s the deal, atheists have managed to denigrate religion with many of it’s absurdities. But have they created an ethical system to replace it? > > Ayn Rand’s Objectivism at least attempted to build a new ethical system. Do atheists have anything similar? Just to follow up on others’ replies to this, you don’t need to look particularly hard to find ethical systems that do not presuppose or require a God: [Deontology.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deontological_ethics) [Deontological (also called natural-rights) libertarianism.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deontological_libertarianism) (My choice). [Consequentialism.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequentialism) [Virtue ethics.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_ethics) > [@pchaos](#): > > I’m still working on a definition. But it seems strange to me that in the extreme, atheism and Christianity have things in common. What, exactly, would characterize “extreme” atheism? Atheism is the lack of belief in a God or gods, it’s much more binary than it is part of a spectrum of moderate-to-extreme. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288.md?page=5)