# Atheism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 4, 2013, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288 "2013-02-04T04:58:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/81 "2013-02-04T17:56:10Z")
The one question that deists (or is it theists) cannot fathom an answer to is, well if God created all this, who or what created God? The answer that she is so powerful that she created herself strikes as laughable. Why not simply say the universe always was and always will be. In fact, I think I would view time as essentially logarithmic (which is one way around the idea of the entropy death of the universe). When I am asked about my religious beliefs, my answer is that by certain knowledge I am an agnostic, but by belief I am an atheist. While absence of evidence is not evidence of absence it makes you wonder. God, if she existed, could answer the question at any time, but hasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/82 "2013-02-04T17:57:28Z")
> [@Nancarrow](#): > > You’d better take this up with the mods toot sweet. Interesting - I thought the phrase “toot sweet” was just the name of a candy on _Chitty Chitty Bang Bang_. So I looked it up, and sure enough, it’s an English corruption of a French phrase. Is it common? I’d managed to go about 51 years without knowing about it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/83 "2013-02-04T18:01:16Z")
I don’t think it’s any more common than the original. I shy away from using it because there’s always a chance people will think I just don’t know how to spell. Especially since the second T is silent. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/84 "2013-02-04T18:05:11Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Interesting - I thought the phrase “toot sweet” was just the name of a candy on _Chitty Chitty Bang Bang_. So I looked it up, and sure enough, it’s an English corruption of a French phrase. Is it common? I’d managed to go about 51 years without knowing about it. Save ray? Ink roy ablah. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/85 "2013-02-04T18:06:59Z")
[QUOTE=Human Action;15969754 What, exactly, would characterize “extreme” atheism? Atheism is the lack of belief in a God or gods, it’s much more binary than it is part of a spectrum of moderate-to-extreme.[/QUOTE] If the scientific method of atheists works so well, then why isn’t it being used in other areas of life. And if it is being used in other areas of life then it starts becoming a spectrum from moderate to extreme. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/86 "2013-02-04T18:11:06Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > If the scientific method of atheists works so well, then why isn’t it being used in other areas of life. And if it is being used in other areas of life then it starts becoming a spectrum from moderate to extreme. you are really confused here - The “Scientific Method” is not “of atheists” - and it does work very well in damn near all areas of life… How does the “scientific method” become a ‘spectrum’ from moderate to extreme? or are you talking about peoples usage of it? You still do not get what an atheist is, do you? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/87 "2013-02-04T18:12:15Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > If the scientific method of atheists works so well, then why isn’t it being used in other areas of life. It’s used in absolutely all areas of life where objective judgement is valid. What made you think otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/88 "2013-02-04T18:13:13Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > If the scientific method of atheists works so well, then why isn’t it being used in other areas of life. And if it is being used in other areas of life then it starts becoming a spectrum from moderate to extreme. What? The scientific method isn’t “the scientific method of atheists”; it’s just the scientific method. Why are you bringing the scientific method into this? Whether or not you find the scientific method “extreme” has zero to do with your statement regarding extreme atheism. Please respond to post #78. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/89 "2013-02-04T18:17:09Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > If the scientific method of atheists works so well, then why isn’t it being used in other areas of life. And if it is being used in other areas of life then it starts becoming a spectrum from moderate to extreme. So, coming up with fair tests to see if your ideas match reality “starts becoming a spectrum from moderate to extreme” ? Could you expand on that, or possibly give us your personal definition of the “scientific method” so we can see where you are mistaken? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/90 "2013-02-04T18:17:30Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > What? The scientific method isn’t “the scientific method of atheists”; it’s just the scientific method. Indeed, there’s plenty of a-theistic woo out there. While plenty of adherents to chiropractic and homeopathy are religious, it’s definitely not a requirement. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/91 "2013-02-04T18:19:50Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > If the scientific method of atheists works so well, then why isn’t it being used in other areas of life. And if it is being used in other areas of life then it starts becoming a spectrum from moderate to extreme. The scientific method and atheism are two totally different things. Perhaps atheists in the aggregate put more stock in science than religious folk do, but just being an atheist doesn’t mean you value the scientific method. It means you do not believe in any gods, nothing more or less than that. Yes, use of the scientific method could, I suppose, become extreme, if use of needless experiments become disruptive to your daily life. But atheism is a yes-or-no proposition. Lastly, remember that science is a self-limiting system. It is a system to “build and organize knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe.” That is what it can be used for; not ethical questions. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/92 "2013-02-04T18:28:40Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Lastly, remember that science is a self-limiting system. It is a system to “build and organize knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe.” An example of science being applied to humans is B.F. Skinner’s Behaviorism. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/93 "2013-02-04T18:31:38Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > An example of science being applied to humans is B.F. Skinner’s Behaviorism. Which has what to do with atheism? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/94 "2013-02-04T18:31:59Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > An example of science being applied to humans is B.F. Skinner’s Behaviorism. Okay… You realize this doesn’t refute Human Action’s point: \* That is what it can be used for; not ethical questions.\* And if that’s not why you are bringing it up, then please explain what relevance Behaviorism has on the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/95 "2013-02-04T18:34:09Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > An example of science being applied to humans is B.F. Skinner’s Behaviorism. Yes, it was. So was Lombroso’s Biological theory of criminality. So? One of the neat things about Science is that it is self-correcting, so eventually theories (even theories of human behaviour) which do not prove to be useful are abandoned. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/96 "2013-02-04T18:48:22Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Here’s the deal, atheists have managed to denigrate religion with many of it’s absurdities. But have they created an ethical system to replace it? > > Ayn Rand’s Objectivism at least attempted to build a new ethical system. Do atheists have anything similar? As said, plenty, including humanism. However morally religion is a net negative; having no morality is generally better than the twisted parody of morality that religion produces. > [@DrFidelius](#): > > Which is remarkably similar to standard Western religious ethics, only with less Divine Punishment, almost no “Kill the Unbelievers,” and a recognition that most of the Do-Unto-Others type directions actually are a pretty reasonable starting point for a social species. That’s because religion is intellectually parasitic; it contributes nothing original that’s useful. “The parts that are good are not original; the parts that are original aren’t any good” (to paraphrase something that was said about Freud, I think). “Murder and theft are bad” or the Golden Rule aren’t especially Christian concepts; “thou shalt have no other gods before me” and "Women are at fault for Original Sin is. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/97 "2013-02-04T18:49:14Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > The depth of the idiocy of this question seems to have escaped those who have wasted time trying to answer it. > > “I am so stupid, illiterate and lazy as to be unable to read anything, so I am searching the world’s visual trash heap trying to answer one of the world’s great ethical/philosophical questions by finding a vid-EE-o that conforms to my limited concepts of how someone who says there ain’t no god justifies hisself.” If you have an argument to make, **NitroPress** , make it without being this insulting and sarcastic. This isn’t appropriate for GD. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/98 "2013-02-04T19:06:33Z")
Also: I realize atheism is a big topic there is room in this thread to talk about ethics and other issues. But **pchaos** , stick with the original subject for a while before you start taking this in 12 other directions. You acknowledge you’ve had trouble figuring out what atheists actually think, so perhaps you could ask some questions about that and listen to the answers. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/99 "2013-02-04T19:46:44Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > What, exactly, would characterize “extreme” atheism? Deicide? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288/100 "2013-02-04T20:00:22Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > An example of science being applied to humans is B.F. Skinner’s Behaviorism. Right, which is science, not ethics. In keeping with **Marley** ’s moderator note, I’ll refrain from broader discussion of ethics. On the subject of atheism, I think it’s key that you understand what it is: the lack of belief in gods. That’s it. You’re associating it with science, as though science were the religion of the irreligious, or is some kind of counterpart to religion. That’s simply not true. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheism/649288.md?page=6)