# "Atheist/Agnostic" as a religious category **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 21, 2014, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-agnostic-as-a-religious-category/679399 "2014-01-21T21:43:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-agnostic-as-a-religious-category/679399/21 "2014-01-22T03:22:30Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > They should differentiate between agnostics who believe you can’t know and those who just don’t give a shit. What about people who think gods might be kinda cool but mostly just don’t give a shit and call themselves agnostic to buy time to change the subject? We disgust both theists and some atheists because of our waffling, but you know what? We don’t give a shit and want them to go bother someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-agnostic-as-a-religious-category/679399/22 "2014-01-22T03:24:13Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > “Agnostic” is much more like any of the religions than it is like atheism. If you imagine that gods are even remotely plausible, it’s almost nothing to go right ahead and believe in them. This of course, is a crock. Agnosticism is the refusal to believe in the absence of gods without proof. Atheists are willing to accept the absence of gods on faith alone. [Bertrand Russel says it nicely](http://scepsis.net/eng/articles/id_6.php): > [@](#): > > **Proof of God** > Here there comes a practical question which has often troubled me. Whenever I go into a foreign country or a prison or any similar place they always ask me what is my religion. > I never know whether I should say “Agnostic” or whether I should say “Atheist”. It is a very difficult question and I daresay that some of you have been troubled by it. As a philosopher, if I were speaking to a purely philosophic audience I should say that I ought to describe myself as an Agnostic, because I do not think that there is a conclusive argument by which one prove that there is not a God. > On the other hand, if I am to convey the right impression to the ordinary man in the street I think I ought to say that I am an Atheist, because when I say that I cannot prove that there is not a God, I ought to add equally that I cannot prove that there are not the Homeric gods. I’m an agnostic. My wife is a **Godless atheist** , which is the very worst kind! The issue at hand is proof, not belief. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-agnostic-as-a-religious-category/679399/23 "2014-01-22T03:37:48Z")
> [@Octarine](#): > > I always saw it as more of a “personal vs rational” idea. With agonist theists, they say that _emotionally_ speaking, they believe there is a god - but they fully acknowledge that it is not rational to do so and that they have no evidence to back them up. With agnostic atheists, they emotionally believe there is no god - but they also admit that they have no real proof and that god could exist. Either way, what you get is a person who not only wouldn’t force their beliefs on others, but who would be reluctant to even debate their beliefs. I can see that as well. > [@Squink](#): > > This of course, is a crock. Agnosticism is the refusal to believe in the absence of gods without proof. Atheists are willing to accept the absence of gods on faith alone… This is patently absurd - ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-agnostic-as-a-religious-category/679399/24 "2014-01-22T04:10:40Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > This of course, is a crock. Agnosticism is the refusal to believe in the absence of gods without proof. Atheists are willing to accept the absence of gods on faith alone. This is just a bizarre statement. But then again, it might come down to definitions. I’m atheist in the sense that I do not believe in a higher power. That’s a pretty reasonable definition of atheism. I am so because I see no evidence to believe in a god. I am also agnostic, as I think there is the far-flung possibility that knowledge of god is simply unknowable, and it is beyond human knowledge or understanding. That is, certainly, a possibility. It’s also possible that reality is just a figment of my imagination. I don’t claim that I definitely _know_ god not to exist. But I don’t believe a god exists, hence, I’m an atheist. At least by my definition. There’s no “faith” involved. ---
**Author:** ![weemart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f14d63/32.png) [@weemart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/weemart)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-agnostic-as-a-religious-category/679399/25 "2014-01-22T04:36:11Z")
If a person feels the need to say they’re an atheist then they’ve already proven they believe God may exist. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-agnostic-as-a-religious-category/679399/26 "2014-01-22T04:41:33Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > I think you’re ascribing the term “agnostic” more credulity than it implies. He isn’t. There are two types of agnostics: 1. People who give undue weight to the idea of gods that they do not give to, say, invisible pink unicorns. 2. Wankers and solipsists. An agnostic who does not fall into one of these two categories would not call themselves an agnostic, but an atheist. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-agnostic-as-a-religious-category/679399/27 "2014-01-22T04:41:38Z")
> [@weemart](#): > > If a person feels the need to say they’re an atheist then they’ve already proven they believe God may exist. also an absurd statement. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-agnostic-as-a-religious-category/679399/28 "2014-01-22T04:43:14Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > It is to me. I’m fine with your point that they should be separate categories, just not that it’s necessarily a small step from believing something supernatural is possible to having faith that it IS. Similar to how it’s not a small step from believing that it’s remotely possible that I could win the Lotto tomorrow if I buy a ticket vs. having faith that I WILL, and with a specific set of numbers because those are the correct ones. > > I know it’s not a perfect analogy but I’m just saying there’s a big difference between considering something possible vs. considering something definite. I think it’s a great analogy and you’re right. You’ve changed my mind on this point. I really only want to stress what a big difference there is between thinking gods are plausible and thinking they’re not. What I said before goes beyond this and shouldn’t have. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![weemart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f14d63/32.png) [@weemart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/weemart)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-agnostic-as-a-religious-category/679399/29 "2014-01-22T04:43:29Z")
Why’s it absurd? There’s no tigers living wild in Scotland. I don’t feel the need to tell ppl that. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-agnostic-as-a-religious-category/679399/30 "2014-01-22T04:45:17Z")
> [@weemart](#): > > Why’s it absurd? There’s no tigers living wild in Scotland. I don’t feel the need to tell ppl that. Only because nobody’s stupid enough to go around shouting about the wild Scottish tigers. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-agnostic-as-a-religious-category/679399/31 "2014-01-22T04:45:52Z")
> [@weemart](#): > > Why’s it absurd? There’s no tigers living wild in Scotland. I don’t feel the need to tell ppl that. Usually because there is no one running around trying to prove otherwise - theists constantly push “god exists” - therefore an atheist is simply the counter to that position. ---
**Author:** ![weemart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f14d63/32.png) [@weemart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/weemart)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-agnostic-as-a-religious-category/679399/32 "2014-01-22T04:46:54Z")
but ppl who supposedly don’t believe in God still feel the need to tell ppl they don’t. By referring to something they supposedly don’t believe exists they r giving it existence. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-agnostic-as-a-religious-category/679399/33 "2014-01-22T04:48:47Z")
> [@weemart](#): > > Why’s it absurd? There’s no tigers living wild in Scotland. I don’t feel the need to tell ppl that. I don’t tell people about my atheism, either, unless it comes up, which is actually pretty rare. I doubt more than a handful of my friends even know. It’s not something I care about. Conversely, I’m unsure of which of my friends are atheists. I know some that are, and I know the theists pretty easily, but the majority of my friends, I have no clue in their belief system, if any. Hell, a couple of my ex-girlfriends, I haven’t the faintest clue. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-agnostic-as-a-religious-category/679399/34 "2014-01-22T04:48:49Z")
> [@weemart](#): > > By referring to something they supposedly don’t believe exists they r giving it existence. Fiction and reality aren’t the same thing, you dumbass. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-agnostic-as-a-religious-category/679399/35 "2014-01-22T04:49:07Z")
> [@weemart](#): > > but ppl who supposedly don’t believe in God still feel the need to tell ppl they don’t. > > By referring to something they supposedly don’t believe exists they r giving it existence. damn - so vampires, santa clause, and zombies exist to? You’re a special kinda stupid, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![weemart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f14d63/32.png) [@weemart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/weemart)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-agnostic-as-a-religious-category/679399/36 "2014-01-22T04:53:36Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I don’t tell people about my atheism, either, unless it comes up, which is actually pretty rare. I doubt more than a handful of my friends even know. It’s not something I care about. Conversely, I’m unsure of which of my friends are atheists. I know some that are, and I know the theists pretty easily, but the majority of my friends, I have no clue in their belief system, if any. Hell, a couple of my ex-girlfriends, I haven’t the faintest clue. You felt the need to tell us you were an atheist. Which proves my point. If something doesn’t exist it never gets referred to. When’s the last time u read about giraffes living in the atlantic ocean? I bet it’s never. Cos they don’t exist. Therefore nobody refers to them. By feeling the need to refer to something u are giving it existence. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-agnostic-as-a-religious-category/679399/37 "2014-01-22T04:56:12Z")
> [@weemart](#): > > You felt the need to tell us you were an atheist. Which proves my point. > > If something doesn’t exist it never gets referred to. > > When’s the last time u read about giraffes living in the atlantic ocean? I bet it’s never. Cos they don’t exist. Therefore nobody refers to them. By feeling the need to refer to something u are giving it existence. Fuck - just now, 1000 Giraffes drowned in the atlantic ocean - they were caught in a net designed to catch nessie and perished. If only you hadn’t mentioned them - they would have survived because no one knew they existed yet . Do you get how stupid that sounds? ---
**Author:** ![weemart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f14d63/32.png) [@weemart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/weemart)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-agnostic-as-a-religious-category/679399/38 "2014-01-22T04:57:04Z")
wow. u got a link? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-agnostic-as-a-religious-category/679399/39 "2014-01-22T04:58:46Z")
> [@weemart](#): > > wow. u got a link? I got yer [link right here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17036316&postcount=37) ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-agnostic-as-a-religious-category/679399/40 "2014-01-22T05:02:23Z")
> [@weemart](#): > > but **ppl** who supposedly don’t believe in God still feel the need to tell **ppl** they don’t. > > By referring to something they supposedly don’t believe exists they **r** giving it existence. You’re new here and I’ll give you a hint that may smooth your way: Don’t use text abbreviations because some people here think they make you look like an idiot. Yes, they’re more efficient and you get your point across, but you also give others ammunition they can use against you. In the long run it’s easier, much like calling yourself an agnostic rather than an atheist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-agnostic-as-a-religious-category/679399.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-agnostic-as-a-religious-category/679399.md?page=3)