# Atheist Bus Driver Trys to Convert Students **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 21, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864 "2018-04-21T15:52:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/121 "2018-04-23T02:02:46Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Right. No matter how thoroughly one searches Loch Ness without finding the monster, it could just mean that it is invisible most of the time and just materializes when it wants to. It could be incorporeal, and not detectable to any kind of scientific equipment. Even if you drained the Loch and found nothing there, it wouldn’t _prove_ anything! It’s simply impossible to provide hard scientific evidence that it doesn’t exist. That’s what I said. Dude might be in Boca for the season. Weather’s gotta be better. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > This creature is the culmination of thousands of years of “My God is bigger than your God!!”. My God’s bigger 'cuz He gets Ken-L-Ration; My God’s bigger than yours! You want obscure pop culture references just see me. > [@Voyager](#): > > Any god worth the name could prove his existence to the level that we can prove the existence of Paris. Historian Michael Wood has suggested, based on the timing and that Troy was probably a Hittite satrapy, Paris would’ve led a contingent of Trojans to the Battle of Kadesh, but he hasn’t proven it. > [@Chimera](#): > > Go a bit further back in Semitic and Sumerian gods and you reach **Anu**. As in Anus? Sounds just like the OT God. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/122 "2018-04-23T02:11:33Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I don’t matter. We just happen to be on a discussion board. Sorry if I hurt your feelings. It seems really important for you to believe that you have done so. As if some massive part of your self-identity was wrapped up on other being people “snowflakes” and easily hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/123 "2018-04-23T02:16:32Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > But you never actually stop long enough to realize that I’ve never said there is a god, I’ve certainly never advocated for a creator god and I absolutely have not referred to the Bible. I’ve only said that, at present, we can’t know. Do you believe the same about Santa Claus? If you equally say that we can’t know about Santa Claus, leprechauns, the Loch Ness Monster, or Batman, then you would be consistent. Stupid, but consistent. If you think god is somehow different from the others, you’re being both stupid and inconsistent. Basically, you’re brainwashed by the culture that you have been immersed in from birth. If you think we “can’t know” about god, but can know that Santa Claus doesn’t exist, it’s because you can’t free yourself from you ingrained preconceptions. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/124 "2018-04-23T02:31:43Z")
I didn’t open this thread, so I keep reading the thread title in The Pit list, and every time I think “Damn atheist. Let those kids believe what they want!” I’d like to register a vote against “Opposite Day” thread titles… and against Theists who say “Bollocks back ya fuck.” ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/125 "2018-04-23T02:46:19Z")
Can we get someone to share the good news of Ba’al? Good old child sacrifice. Keeps the kids in line. "Don’t worry, only bad kids get sacrificed to Ba’al and you’re good kids, right? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/126 "2018-04-23T02:56:24Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > It seems really important for you to believe that you have done so. As if some massive part of your self-identity was wrapped up on other being people “snowflakes” and easily hurt. I hate to remind you, but you are the guy who brought up someone being “triggered”. But now I’m the guy desperate to paint people that way. Make sure you mention this interaction at your next session. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/127 "2018-04-23T02:56:44Z")
[Some gods are less fussy](https://imgur.com/gallery/502iFqm). ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/128 "2018-04-23T03:01:41Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Right. Like me, God and Bosda are the only ones here with extensive tentacle porn collections. :rolleyes: You’ve never met **Octopus** have you. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/129 "2018-04-23T03:06:31Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I hate to remind you, but you are the guy who brought up someone being “triggered”. But now I’m the guy desperate to paint people that way. Make sure you mention this interaction at your next session. Ooh, and mentioning therapy. Right. Part of the “the other guy is an easily hurt snowflake” mentality. Do you talk this way to your boss, your local cops, your minister, your wife? Or is the tough talking “Fuck your feelings” attitude only toward liberals so you can feel strong and superior? ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/130 "2018-04-23T03:24:20Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Now I’m trying to imagine a Nihilist bus driver preaching to the kids. > > Telling 5 and 6 year olds that nothing matters, their lives aren’t important and just like everything else, they’re all going to die someday; as you drive them home. Just show them Kurzgesagt’s [_Optimistic Nihilism_](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFs4vir_WsTxontcYm5ctqp89cNBJKNrs), part of their Existential Crisis playlist. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/131 "2018-04-23T03:38:04Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Ooh, and mentioning therapy. Right. Part of the “the other guy is an easily hurt snowflake” mentality. > > Do you talk this way to your boss, your local cops, your minister, your wife? > > Or is the tough talking “Fuck your feelings” attitude only toward liberals so you can feel strong and superior? Why are you so triggered by this sort of thing? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/132 "2018-04-23T03:41:53Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Why are you so triggered by this sort of thing? Ah, you’re a one trick pony. Got it. Won’t bother any further. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/133 "2018-04-23T03:46:58Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Do you believe the same about Santa Claus? > > If you equally say that we can’t know about Santa Claus, leprechauns, the Loch Ness Monster, or Batman, then you would be consistent. Stupid, but consistent. If you think god is somehow different from the others, you’re being both stupid and inconsistent. > > Basically, you’re brainwashed by the culture that you have been immersed in from birth. If you think we “can’t know” about god, but can know that Santa Claus doesn’t exist, it’s because you can’t free yourself from you ingrained preconceptions. But we know when the Santa Claus myth started. We can’t trace the origin of when the concept of a deity of some kind started. It’s prehistoric and probably as old as humanity. Based on how it’s usually defined, it’s arguably unknowable by definition. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/134 "2018-04-23T03:50:29Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Ah, you’re a one trick pony. Got it. Won’t bother any further. I was quoting you, so you’re the pony I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/135 "2018-04-23T05:19:52Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > But we know when the Santa Claus myth started. We can’t trace the origin of when the concept of a deity of some kind started. It’s prehistoric and probably as old as humanity. Based on how it’s usually defined, it’s arguably unknowable by definition. So what? ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/136 "2018-04-23T07:00:20Z")
OK, let me clear this up to you: \*\*Zeke \*\*knows for certain that we can’t know for certain ( except some negatives, I guess… I’m not sure… ) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/137 "2018-04-23T07:02:39Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > So what? So it’s a poor analogy. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/138 "2018-04-23T07:16:26Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Do you believe the same about Santa Claus? > > If you equally say that we can’t know about Santa Claus, leprechauns, the Loch Ness Monster, or Batman, then you would be consistent. Stupid, but consistent. If you think god is somehow different from the others, you’re being both stupid and inconsistent. Not really, I look at what we know about the universe and see that something exists and naturally wonder if any thing created that universe or put it in motion. The answer is not no one or nothing. The answer is we don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/139 "2018-04-23T07:22:14Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Historian Michael Wood has suggested, based on the timing and that Troy was probably a Hittite satrapy, Paris would’ve led a contingent of Trojans to the Battle of Kadesh, but he hasn’t proven it. Wrong Paris, unless Troy is located down the Champ de Elysees. We all know it is in New York. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/140 "2018-04-23T08:02:44Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > Atheists have faith that there is no god. Theists have faith that there is. The difference is that theists have the integrity to call it faith. Hands up, all the atheists here who are 100% certain that there is no god. …Not too many hands, I imagine, because most atheists are well aware that such certainty is impossible, because it’s impossible _by design_. Proving the non-existence of something is virtually impossible, and given the traits attributed to God, you might as well try to prove the non-existence of slime molds in the Andromeda Galaxy - this is a hypothetical being whose traits make it functionally impossible for us to learn anything about it. Now, there are good reasons _not_ to believe in such a being - the burden of proof, our understanding of how various other disproven god myths came to be, biblical scholarship demonstrating how this god myth came to be, science showing that many claims made in the bible are just straight-up wrong, et cetera - but none of this is definitive proof that there isn’t some invisible sky wizard who tortures us forever when we die unless we believe in them. This is the position most atheists take - we can’t disprove God, but we have plenty of good reasons to doubt its existence, and absolutely no good reasons to believe in its existence. So please, don’t strawman or [weakman](http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/05/12/weak-men-are-superweapons/) the position of atheists. Most of us do not have faith that there is no god, and I will denounce those who hold that faith quite loudly. > [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > What atheists don’t get is that they are just as fucked in the head as theists. Neither side can actually KNOW they are right they can only believe. And belief is nothing but faith. Right. This is why when I say “there’s no such thing as an invisible pink unicorn that takes the good little girls to Fairyland in their dreams” and my (hypothetical) three-year-old daughter insists that there is, we’re both going off nothing but faith, and we’re both equally fucked in the head. Right? > [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > I don’t claim that God exists. I claim that we can’t know one way one another. And to say otherwise is bullshit. So do you believe that at least one god exists or not? “I don’t know” doesn’t answer the question. “We can’t know” doesn’t answer the question. It’s not about whether you know, it’s about whether you believe. Do you believe that at least one god exists? Congrats, you are a theist. Do you not believe that at least one god exists? Congrats, you are an atheist. There is no fence to straddle here, unless your dismissal of logic earlier in the thread includes a dismissal of the law of the excluded middle. You either believe something… or you don’t. Whether or not you _know_ it has nothing to do with whether or not you believe it. > [@](#): > > You can’t prove the non-existence, they can’t prove the existence. You say the onus is on them they say it is on you. Know why? Because they fundamentally do not understand the concept of the burden of proof. And it’s really not a hard concept - if you make a claim about reality, the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate it. When I reject your claim, this does not suddenly shift the burden of proof onto me. If you say, “I believe there’s a psychic walrus living on neptune who talks to me in my dreams” and I say, “I don’t believe that, what’s your evidence”, it is not suddenly my burden to prove to you that there’s no psychic walrus living on neptune. It’s on you to provide evidence of said walrus, or to admit that you do not have good reasons to believe what you believe. Now, if my response was, “There is definitely no walrus on neptune”, it would be on me to prove that. Which would be a fool’s errand, because the psychic walrus can turn invisible and intangible at will, and Neptune is really freakin’ big and really far away. But I’m not saying that! I’m saying that I don’t believe your claim about the psychic walrus, and that you should provide evidence for it. This really isn’t that hard of a concept. > [@DesertDog](#): > > Just show them Kurzgesagt’s [_Optimistic Nihilism_](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFs4vir_WsTxontcYm5ctqp89cNBJKNrs), part of their Existential Crisis playlist. Excellent video, excellent channel, can recommend. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864.md?page=8)