# Atheist Bus Driver Trys to Convert Students **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 21, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864 "2018-04-21T15:52:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/141 "2018-04-23T11:17:13Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > So do you believe that at least one god exists or not? “I don’t know” doesn’t answer the question. “We can’t know” doesn’t answer the question. It’s not about whether you know, it’s about whether you believe. Do you believe that at least one god exists? Congrats, you are a theist. Do you not believe that at least one god exists? Congrats, you are an atheist. There is no fence to straddle here, unless your dismissal of logic earlier in the thread includes a dismissal of the law of the excluded middle. You either believe something… or you don’t. Whether or not you _know_ it has nothing to do with whether or not you believe it. . So do you believe that I have a coin in my pocket? (P.S. I haven’t checked) “I don’t know” doesn’t answer the question. “We can’t know” doesn’t answer the question. It’s not about whether you know, it’s about whether you believe. Do you believe that I have at least one coin in my pocket? Congrats, you are a theist. Do you not believe that I have at least one coin in my pocket? Congrats, you are an atheist. There is no fence to straddle here, unless your dismissal of logic earlier in the thread includes a dismissal of the law of the excluded middle. You either believe something… or you don’t. Whether or not you _know_ it has nothing to do with whether or not you believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/142 "2018-04-23T11:27:14Z")
I have no problem going on the assumption that the god described in the JudeoChristian scripture doesn’t exist. If it _did_ exist, it’s clearly capable of making its existence known and demonstrable, since it’s frequently described doing so in that same scripture. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/143 "2018-04-23T11:50:20Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > So do you believe that I have a coin in my pocket? (P.S. I haven’t checked) “I don’t know” doesn’t answer the question. “We can’t know” doesn’t answer the question. It’s not about whether you know, it’s about whether you believe. Do you believe that I have at least one coin in my pocket? Congrats, you are a theist. Do you not believe that I have at least one coin in my pocket? Congrats, you are an atheist. There is no fence to straddle here, unless your dismissal of logic earlier in the thread includes a dismissal of the law of the excluded middle. You either believe something… or you don’t. Whether or not you _know_ it has nothing to do with whether or not you believe it. I realize this is a snappy response, but the honest answer is that, as silly as it may be to hold a firm belief in one direction or another on this question, there really is no middle to it - either I believe you have a coin in your pocket, or I don’t. “I don’t know” (or, in this case, more relevantly, “I don’t care”) doesn’t actually answer the question, it just presents my unwillingness to answer the question. I may not have any justification to believe either way. Given that you have pockets, and given the propensity of coins in pockets, my priors would lead me to believe that, yes, you most likely have a coin in your pocket. But I am nonetheless forced to alter my model of reality to some degree based on that belief. In the case of the coin in your pocket: not really any significant change whatsoever. In the case of god: quite a bit of very significant change. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/144 "2018-04-23T12:14:56Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > So do you believe that I have a coin in my pocket? (P.S. I haven’t checked) “I don’t know” doesn’t answer the question. “We can’t know” doesn’t answer the question. It’s not about whether you know, it’s about whether you believe. Do you believe that I have at least one coin in my pocket? Congrats, you are a theist. Do you not believe that I have at least one coin in my pocket? Congrats, you are an atheist. There is no fence to straddle here, unless your dismissal of logic earlier in the thread includes a dismissal of the law of the excluded middle. You either believe something… or you don’t. Whether or not you _know_ it has nothing to do with whether or not you believe it. Given the observed existence of coins and pockets I would put the odds pretty high that you have a coin in your pocket. If you tell me that you have an infallibe three sided magic prognostication coin in a pocket which only you can reach in to, then forgive me for expressing doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/145 "2018-04-23T12:27:02Z")
It’s incredible how egocentric so many people are. “Freedom of Religion” means YOU have a right to believe/worship/etc how YOU choose. It doesn’t mean you are free to force your beliefs on others. As a Christian who has actually read and studied the New Testament, I’m astounded by how many self-proclaimed Christians have absolutely no idea what it is they so ardently purport to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/146 "2018-04-23T13:09:46Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Given the observed existence of coins and pockets I would put the odds pretty high that you have a coin in your pocket. > > If you tell me that you have an infallibe three sided magic prognostication coin in a pocket which only you can reach in to, then forgive me for expressing doubt. Budget was talking about belief. Now you are talking about odds. I forgive you for anything. Have your doubts. I have doubts too. This thread is not a valuable use of my time. Enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/147 "2018-04-23T13:47:12Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I have no problem going on the assumption that the god described in the JudeoChristian scripture doesn’t exist. If it _did_ exist, it’s clearly capable of making its existence known and demonstrable, since it’s frequently described doing so in that same scripture. If God exists, and he’s read this thread, who do you think is going to heaven, and who is going to hell? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/148 "2018-04-23T14:05:17Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > If God exists, and he’s read this thread, who do you think is going to heaven, and who is going to hell? Which god? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/149 "2018-04-23T14:23:01Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Budget was talking about belief. Now you are talking about odds. I forgive you for anything. Have your doubts. I have doubts too. This thread is not a valuable use of my time. Enjoy. Swan out all you like but just remember, nobody asked you to come in here and post in the first place. Bye Felicia. ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/150 "2018-04-23T14:29:14Z")
All this complaining, whining and arguing, some even about the title. But no-one has yet complained about “trys”. I don’t know The Dope anymore ☹ ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/151 "2018-04-23T14:35:16Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Not that one either! It’s drivin’ me nuts! \ ARGH!!! \ Sorry, had to change the topic from the zeke shitshow it has become. What a maroon. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/152 "2018-04-23T14:39:26Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > If God exists, and he’s read this thread, who do you think is going to heaven, and who is going to hell? Well, if by “God” you specifically mean the god described in the JudeoChristian scripture, then I don’t know since the formula had always been unclear to me. But let’s go full Pascal’s Wager and say the believers and the people who act like believers go to heaven and the nonbelievers go to hell. What’s your point? All you’ve done is double-down on the mythlogy. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/153 "2018-04-23T14:41:11Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > If God exists, and he’s read this thread, who do you think is going to heaven, and who is going to hell? Who says any god that might exist added the afterlife DLC, or even cares what happens here at all? Well, lots of people say that, but why should we believe they know the score? ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/154 "2018-04-23T14:42:27Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > \ ARGH!!! \ > > Sorry, had to change the topic from the zeke shitshow it has become. What a maroon. A pirate should be marooned if he’s a moron. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/155 "2018-04-23T14:47:31Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > If God exists, and he’s read this thread, who do you think is going to heaven, and who is going to hell? As far as I know She didn’t speak of any “heaven” or “hell”, but there _is_ mention of the Underworld, where the dead go. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/156 "2018-04-23T14:48:15Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > All this complaining, whining and arguing, some even about the title. But no-one has yet complained about “trys”. > > I don’t know The Dope anymore ☹ Dieu or dieu not, there is no trys. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/157 "2018-04-23T14:49:13Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Dieu or dieu not, there is no trys. Please leave. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/158 "2018-04-23T14:58:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > As far as I know She didn’t speak of any “heaven” or “hell”, but there _is_ mention of the Underworld, where the dead go. I think I’ve asked here a few times; how much of the popular conception of heaven and hell is based on scripture, and how much of it is due to latter day fan-fiction writers like Dante and Milton? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/159 "2018-04-23T15:24:01Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I think I’ve asked here a few times; how much of the popular conception of heaven and hell is based on scripture, and how much of it is due to latter day fan-fiction writers like Dante and Milton? I was actually speaking of a goddess that was worshiped long before there were Judaeo-Christian scriptures, and probably for a longer period of time(if you include both of Her names). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864/160 "2018-04-23T16:00:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I was actually speaking of a goddess that was worshiped long before there were Judaeo-Christian scriptures, and probably for a longer period of time(if you include both of Her names). Oh, I’m not challenging that Yahweh is derived from earlier myths, just asking about the modern depictions of the afterlife and their scriptural support, if any. On reflection, my comment would have been better served if written in reply to Morgenstern’s initial reference to heaven and hell, as part of asking what he (?) thinks heaven and hell are actually like, and based on what. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-bus-driver-trys-to-convert-students/812864.md?page=9)