# Atheist Churches, Good or Bad Idea. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 7, 2013, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579 "2013-02-07T12:10:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/221 "2013-02-09T16:28:29Z")
I saw [this](http://www.buzzfeed.com/seancurry1/questions-atheists-are-sick-of-answering) this morning, and thought of this thread… And re: the crumbling cross logo - why single out Christianity? You’d also need a crumbling Star of David, and a crumbling statue of Kali, and a crumbling star and crescent, and many other things too numerous to put in a logo, for pete’s sake. It’s pretty arrogant and presumptuous to assume atheists only don’t believe in YOUR God. We’re equal opportunity no-god-believers. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/222 "2013-02-09T16:30:24Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Okay then a crumbling cross would be a good logo, God isn’t in the picture at all. **pchaos** , you clearly have a definition of atheism - you define it as a rejection of the Christian God, rather than a simple non-belief. There IS a difference, and it’s a big one. It’s one I recognize from growing up in the South. Lots of people had the same idea of atheism. Put it this way: why does it have to be a crumbling **cross**. Why not a crumbling Star of David? Or a crumbling crescent? Or a crumbling swastika? From my seat, you are defining atheism in terms of the religion _you_ believe - as a rejection of it, rather than a simple non-belief. ETA: darn it, ninja’d on the religious symbols. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/223 "2013-02-09T16:33:15Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > I saw [this](http://www.buzzfeed.com/seancurry1/questions-atheists-are-sick-of-answering) this morning, and thought of this thread… Awesome.😃 ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/224 "2013-02-09T16:45:44Z")
**pchaos** , just another problem with your personal misunderstanding of atheism: you seem to define it only as a rejection of the random religion that you adhere to. But for there to be a rejection, it needs to feature in some way to begin with. I was raised an atheist in an atheist society. The idea of any god being real was never a serious consideration. I was told the Greek myths and Tolkien alongside the Christian myths (literally), and they always meant the same to me. At what point could I have possibly rejected anyone of those? The Christian god was always a fictional creature, like Sauron. I rejected your god’s particular existence no more than I rejected the existence of Sauron, or Zeus or the Gruffalo. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/225 "2013-02-09T16:59:59Z")
Actually, your idea for a “crumbling cross” logo pretty well sums up your apparent misunderstanding of what atheism means. You’re suggesting we define ourselves by something we don’t believe in. Who does that? Nobody starts a club dedicated to not playing chess. “We ought to hang out and do stuff on Saturdays; dunno what, but it’s NOT GOING TO BE PLAYING CHESS!” If somebody doesn’t want to play chess, they just don’t play chess. If atheists get together and form a group, it’s because they have some purpose in mind. Maybe that’s a book discussion club. Maybe it’s collecting food and blankets for the homeless. It may even have something tangentially related to religion; there are atheist groups that exist to raise public awareness that in fact, being an atheist doesn’t make you a bad person, since that kind of knowledge is apparently so desperately needed. Maybe they discuss how to handle religious relatives who are worried about their souls. And maybe they just get together as a respite, to play cards or something, in an environment where they know nobody’s going to pop up and ask them stupid questions about why they hate God or if they’re so smart, where did the universe come from, huh, huh? But I can tell you one thing they’re not going to get together for - to have a weekly meeting where they do nothing but sit around and talk about how much they don’t believe in God. Church has a purpose - to worship your God. If you have no god, there is no impetus to have a church. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/226 "2013-02-09T17:04:43Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > **pchaos** , you clearly have a definition of atheism - you define it as a rejection of the Christian God, rather than a simple non-belief. There IS a difference, and it’s a big one. > From my seat, you are defining atheism in terms of the religion _you_ believe - as a rejection of it, rather than a simple non-belief. Okay, then let’s get God out of the picture, what’s a good logo for an Atheist’s Community Center. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/227 "2013-02-09T17:13:39Z")
Why does it need a logo? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/228 "2013-02-09T17:18:39Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Okay, then let’s get God out of the picture, what’s a good logo for an Atheist’s Community Center. And why would it be restricted to atheists? And why do we need a community center? _ **And what is your definition of “atheist”?** _ ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/229 "2013-02-09T17:25:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And why would it be restricted to atheists? It wouldn’t, since most of the examples here don’t fit that pattern. I’m hoping maybe **pchaos** will pick up on this at some point. > [@](#): > > And why do we need a community center? Does it matter? I’m no graphic designer. For reference, [here’s the logo for the New York Society for Ethical Culture](http://www.nysec.org/) - looks like a stick figure in a circle - [and here’s the Humanist Society](http://humanist-society.org/) - which I think represents four people joining together. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/230 "2013-02-09T17:26:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And why would it be restricted to atheists?\*\*\* Atheists would simply be part of the name, there’s no need to restrict access to others. It would be a gathering place in the community or neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/231 "2013-02-09T17:27:08Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > No, I didn’t say that. But Christianity is special…it is the only religion where God shows His love by becoming Man. Jesus (God) experiences everything Mankind experiences and then dies on the cross. He led by example and apparently to atheists he has abandoned Mankind. In Greco-Roman and Hindu mythology, various deities take the form of humans so they can experience life as a mortal. Even if Christianity was “special”, atheists wouldn’t care because we don’t believe Jesus died for our sins blah blah blah. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/232 "2013-02-09T17:29:21Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Atheists would simply be part of the name, there’s no need to restrict access to others. It would be a gathering place in the community or neighborhood. The we would call it…_ **THE COMMUNITY CENTER!** _ ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/233 "2013-02-09T17:30:44Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Okay, then let’s get God out of the picture, what’s a good logo for an Atheist’s Community Center. 1. Why does it need a logo or symbol? 2. What makes this any different from the “Chicago City Community Center” or “Tarrant County Community Center”? 3. Why the insistence that such a general, community center is necessary vs the smaller centers that already exist? ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/234 "2013-02-09T17:39:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The we would call it…_ **THE COMMUNITY CENTER!** _ You could but how would you be able to differentiate it from other community centers. Also, how would you be able to encourage other atheists to participate and contribute both time and money. It could also help dispel some of the negative images others have of Atheists. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/235 "2013-02-09T17:42:20Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > You could but how would you be able to differentiate it from other community centers. Why would you need to? > [@pchaos](#): > > Also, how would you be able to encourage other atheists to participate and contribute both time and money. The same way you do before. Why would having “atheist” in the name make such a big difference? Are you only a good person because you are encouraged by the name of your church? > [@pchaos](#): > > It could also help dispel some of the negative connotations others have of Atheists. Yeah, right. That doesn’t happen with the existing organizations. Why should another one make any difference? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/236 "2013-02-09T17:43:35Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > You could but how would you be able to differentiate it from other community centers. Also, how would you be able to encourage other atheists to participate and contribute both time and money. It could also help dispel some of the negative connotations others have of Atheists. I’m sure civic-minded atheists already contribute time and money to worthy causes and/or organizations-would you have us withdraw our support of these to start our own duplicate efforts? Besides, wouldn’t it easier to dispel negative connotations others have of atheists(non-capitalized, please-we aren’t a formal group) by having people like you would quit spreading them? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/237 "2013-02-09T17:49:09Z")
This is getting most disingenuous. **pchaos** , it is also becoming clear the community and charitable aspects are a distraction and digression. You see a church as a vehicle for “spreading the message of Christianity” in the community. It is clear you can’t understand how “atheists” (in quotes, as these are _your_ version of atheists) can spread _their_ “message of non-belief” without a similar structure. The points you continue to fail to realize is (1) atheists aren’t a unified body of people and (2) most aren’t interested in proselytizing or “converting” other people to atheism. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/238 "2013-02-09T17:56:29Z")
Do you get the feeling that this thread exists because some Christians are jealous that atheists are free from needing to attend weekly meetings where people blather on and on about nonsense they couldn’t care less about? “Hey, if I have to put up with this horseshit, so should you?” ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/239 "2013-02-09T17:56:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Besides, wouldn’t it easier to dispel negative connotations others have of atheists(non-capitalized, please-we aren’t a formal group) by having people like you would quit spreading them? Atheists had a bad image long before I started posting…and I’ve been trying to correct some of my incorrect perception of atheists. However, it has often seemed like you had a huge chip on your shoulder for some reason. This message board helps get the word out about atheists, but it has limited scope. It’s through daily interaction with individuals that people get a feeling that the other person is okay and a conscientious member of the community. I’ll be frank, I didn’t choose my church because of what they believed. That was only one reason, I chose my church because they are good people and I can rely on them and I found that out by interacting with them. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/240 "2013-02-09T18:10:53Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > You could but how would you be able to differentiate it from other community centers. Different programs and things like that. Almost none of these centers are actually atheistic. They’re non-religious. So advertising that they are atheistic would limit membership in an undesired way. > [@](#): > > It could also help dispel some of the negative images others have of Atheists. Who cares? That image (as you yourself are proving) is based on misunderstandings and bad assumptions, not facts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579.md?page=13)