# Atheist Churches, Good or Bad Idea. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 7, 2013, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579 "2013-02-07T12:10:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/281 "2013-02-10T13:40:22Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > No, I didn’t say that. But Christianity is special…it is the only religion where God shows His love by becoming Man. Jesus (God) experiences everything Mankind experiences and then dies on the cross. He led by example and apparently to atheists he has abandoned Mankind. This is not true, Jesus didn’t live a great many things a human man would have to do, He didn’t support a wife, have the stress of feeding and caring for a family, never suffered the long and lingering pain of a lot of humans,When he needed money for his taxes he just sent Peter to a lake drew out a fish got the money for His and Peter’s taxes. Chose when he would suffer, how much,and how long, and knew he would be dead for only a few hours, no human man could do this. as for food, it would seem he could drum up food and wine when ever he saw fit. No way did he ever experience what a human man would experience, and no way what a woman goes through! Our service men go through a great deal more and are not sure of the out come! ---
**Author:** ![Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fake_Tales_of_San_Francisco)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/282 "2013-02-10T13:44:17Z")
Is it possible **pchaos** is using the term ‘atheism’ to describe humanism and rationalism? There’s a lot of cross-over, sure, but there’s different drives behind all these words, and they don’t necessarily imply or presuppose one another. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/283 "2013-02-10T13:49:15Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > You could but how would you be able to differentiate it from other community centers. Also, how would you be able to encourage other atheists to participate and contribute both time and money. It could also help dispel some of the negative images others have of Atheists. The Atheists I know aren’t united, just share a non- belief in a Supernatural Being, most want facts, since non are shown they think for themselves.Most do not want a government to force a belief or non-belief on others! ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/284 "2013-02-10T13:49:27Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > We’ve gone over the definition of atheist many times, it is the lack of belief in God or other deities. But every time I start discussing something atheists are uncomfortable with they want to go back to the definition. It is really the practice of atheism that is relevant, going back to the definition of atheism just means that you would rather not discuss how atheism is practiced. I think the issue here is that you expect atheism to inform someone’s world view in some way but really the word is just a descriptor showing one thing that does not inform our world view. That’s it, that’s all. You are trying to use a broad brush to impose opinions on people based on how you think an atheistic world view should be ordered. People are directing you back to the definition to show that is does not imply a world view at all. It only states the one thing that does not inform an atheist’s world view. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/285 "2013-02-10T13:54:32Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Would you be sure to hide your bible under your jacket? > > I also think you’re being dishonest here - from all of your other posts - you want to be sure who the ‘atheist scum’ are so that you can go to the other side of the street - very much like the samaritans of old. I would say, More like the Pharisee’s, that Jesus seemed to despise ,because of their thinking they were better than others because they wore their religion on their sleeves and didn’t follow the spirit of the law! ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/286 "2013-02-10T13:54:48Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > We’ve gone over the definition of atheist many times, it is the lack of belief in God or other deities. But every time I start discussing something atheists are uncomfortable with they want to go back to the definition. It is really the practice of atheism that is relevant, going back to the definition of atheism just means that you would rather not discuss how atheism is practiced. The only thing we are “uncomfortable with” here is _your_ persistent and apparently willful misunderstanding of what atheism _is and is not._ An example in this very post: “the practice of atheism”. There _is_ no ‘practice of atheism’. Lack of belief in something doesn’t compel, or even suggest any sort of behavior at all that could be called ‘a practice’. Atheism _isn’t_ ‘practiced’. Your last sentence is utterly meaningless. And we keep telling you that. But you keep coming back to that meaningless thing, insisting that there’s something we’re ‘refusing’ to discuss. We’re not refusing, we just plain _can’t_ discuss it because “the practice of atheism” is meaningless and non-existent. There _isn’t_ anything to discuss. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/287 "2013-02-10T13:57:21Z")
> [@SirGalahad](#): > > A family member is, I guess, what you would call a “militant” or “radical” atheist. I can’t remember the names of the atheist organizations to which he belongs, but they are active on Facebook and they email each other and post on blogs to the effect that God must be taken off our money, billboards should be erected slamming Christianity, proactive measures need to be instituted to attack religious beliefs. > > Now, I’m not googling the subject to find which atheist groups look familiar and may be the ones that participate in these behaviors, because I simply don’t care what they do. Anyone can find that sort of activity on Facebook and the internet fairly easily. My only point is … there are groups with anti-religious bents, and if they want to assemble to plan the removal of any religious references from government or schools, or publicly challenge religion via billboards, T-shirts, or blogs, I have no problem with that. > > And, if some of them want to do it once a week on Sunday morning and call it a church, I have no problem with that. I don’t see a down-side for the atheists or for any religious folks who may observe said church. It seems to me that the active atheists (you speak of), just want the Separation of Church and State as our founding fathers put in our constitution. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/288 "2013-02-10T13:59:31Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > No…but some have and that’s why there are atheist churches. Are they Tax Exempt? If not, they are not considered a religion!!! ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/289 "2013-02-10T13:59:34Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Ah, there’s the rub. > Atheism is “practiced” in exactly the same way as “not playing hockey” or “not watching television” is practiced. It is very difficult (and pointless) to discuss how a person does not do something. I’m starting to come to the same conclusion, beyond the lack of belief in God and other deities, atheism has little to offer. As a possible consequence, they will remain a small percentage of the population. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/290 "2013-02-10T14:03:19Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Jesus with out a cross makes more sense if your God is a loving ,all knowing,Being. Surely such a being could do a better job than a human, but it seems it gets a kick out of seeing suffering, which if he were all knowing he would know ahead of time,and also be aware of a monster that he created and allowed it to devour the children it is said he loces so much. Too late to edit It was loves.Not loces! ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/291 "2013-02-10T14:11:00Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > …atheism has little to offer. It’s not a religion. It’s not _trying_ to offer anything. Your mistake is in assuming otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/292 "2013-02-10T14:11:11Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I’m starting to come to the same conclusion, beyond the lack of belief in God and other deities, atheism has little to offer. As a possible consequence, they will remain a small percentage of the population. Does that mean I should start watching hockey as watching hockey has so much more to offer than not watching hockey does? yes, I am the only Canadian in the world that doesn’t watch hockey. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/293 "2013-02-10T14:31:56Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I’m starting to come to the same conclusion, beyond the lack of belief in God and other deities, atheism has little to offer. As a possible consequence, they will remain a small percentage of the population. There are people that do not sky dive-let’s call them “askydivists”. They don’t organize askydivists groups, they don’t have a skydivist’s worldview, they do nothing to actively promote askydivism at all. As a result of this people that do not sky dive will remain a small percentage of the population. What is the main error in this argument, **pchaos**? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/294 "2013-02-10T14:42:54Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I’m starting to come to the same conclusion, beyond the lack of belief in God and other deities, atheism has little to offer. As a possible consequence, they will remain a small percentage of the population. Atheism is not trying to offer anything, and it is not an alternate religion. It is a choice to have no religion, which, given the real-world track record of most faiths, can be very attractive to some folks. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/295 "2013-02-10T14:44:07Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > The only thing we are “uncomfortable with” here is _your_ persistent and apparently willful misunderstanding of what atheism _is and is not._ An example in this very post: “the practice of atheism”. There _is_ no ‘practice of atheism’. Lack of belief in something doesn’t compel, or even suggest any sort of behavior at all that could be called ‘a practice’. Atheism _isn’t_ ‘practiced’. Your last sentence is utterly meaningless. And we keep telling you that. But you keep coming back to that meaningless thing, insisting that there’s something we’re ‘refusing’ to discuss. We’re not refusing, we just plain _can’t_ discuss it because “the practice of atheism” is meaningless and non-existent. There _isn’t_ anything to discuss. Then the suffix -ism is misleading in this instance because it is commonly used to describe a world view, philosophy, or political movement. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/296 "2013-02-10T14:46:19Z")
So why don’t solipsists have churches? ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/297 "2013-02-10T14:50:15Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Then the suffix -ism is misleading in this instance because it is commonly used to describe a world view, philosophy, or political movement. Or, in this case, lack thereof. The clue is in the first letter. Also, consider: Dwarfism colloquialism criticism You don’t have difficulty understanding any of those, do you? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/298 "2013-02-10T14:51:35Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Then the suffix -ism is misleading in this instance because it is commonly used to describe a world view, philosophy, or political movement. The -ism is part of _theism_, with the a- indicating a lack thereof. The word does not parse to athe -ism, it is a-theism. Are you sure you are a lawyer? Because most attorneys I know are much more clever with word games. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/299 "2013-02-10T14:56:38Z")
> [@SirGalahad](#): > > You have two problems with your observations. First, I get the feeling you think I want atheists to use the word “church” to describe their little social gatherings at the same building every Sunday. (I’m using Sunday here because I have been to an atheist meeting that convenes every Sunday morning.) Not so, I don’t care what word atheists use to describe their organizations. > > Second, you seem to want to define a word for a segment of atheists that some of them are already using to describe their group assemblies. Much like the example I gave of the word “marriage”, your objection is totally meaningless, because the group will use whatever word they want to label their formal meetings. I simply go on record that I don’t care what word they use. Nah, I wasn’t trying to ascribe motivations to you at all, it’s purely a semantic argument. Although I’m curious as to whether the anti-religion group you described would unironically call themselves a church (it seemed almost that might have been what you were saying). If so, I’d be tempted to point and laugh at them, myself. Anyway, in a thread where the OP seems to want to redefine atheist as “someone who believes in God but thinks He wandered off to go play cosmic golf or something” I’m willing to let this one go without further discussion. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/300 "2013-02-10T14:58:09Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > So why don’t solipsists have churches? It wouldn’t make any sense for them to have churches. So apparently the atheists that have started churches are a relatively small minority of atheists. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579.md?page=16)