# Atheist Churches, Good or Bad Idea. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 7, 2013, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579 "2013-02-07T12:10:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/301 "2013-02-10T15:00:36Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > It wouldn’t make any sense for them to have churches. So apparently the atheists that have started churches are a relatively small minority of atheists. A _very_ small minority-they are an anomaly, not a trend. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/302 "2013-02-10T15:06:31Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > It wouldn’t make any sense for them to have churches. So apparently the atheists that have started churches are a relatively small minority of atheists. None of whom seem to participate on this board. I don’t know any personally (although I honestly do not know which church, temple, or mosque many of my friends attend - the subject rarely comes up). Perhaps you could look up one or two of these “atheist churches” and ask their members why. They probably have a Facebook page - don’t get distracted by the numerous parody or “joke” pages. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/303 "2013-02-10T15:08:13Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I’m starting to come to the same conclusion, beyond the lack of belief in God and other deities, atheism has little to offer. Hallelujah, you’re starting to get it. > [@](#): > > As a possible consequence, they will remain a small percentage of the population. Nope, not quite there yet. Unlike joining a church, nobody decides to become an atheist for the company. In a sense, (I hate to use this comparison for fear of offending somebody) it’s a little like being gay. In broad swathes of the country, it’s unpopular and people think it’s unnatural, and that they need to save your soul from your own wickedness. Sometimes, you hide it from people around you, because you don’t want to get harassed. So why decide to be one? That’s the rub, it’s not something you decide, it’s something you realize you are, after a lot of reflection. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/304 "2013-02-10T15:11:05Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > It wouldn’t make any sense for them to have churches. So apparently the atheists that have started churches are a relatively small minority of atheists. Or, they’re people who grew up going to church, and miss the ritual aspect, and the company and community. So they find their own. Not too hard to understand. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/305 "2013-02-10T15:13:58Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > The -ism is part of _theism_, with the a- indicating a lack thereof. The word does not parse to athe -ism, it is a-theism. > > Are you sure you are a lawyer? Because most attorneys I know are much more clever with word games. A-theism makes sense but then you have the problem that you will be associated with apolitical and amoral. I took a year off from law school because I really wasn’t very good with word games, but somehow I managed to become a lawyer and end up debating about atheism on a message board. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/306 "2013-02-10T15:19:19Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > A-theism makes sense but then you have the problem that you will be associated with apolitical and amoral. The only problem we have are people like you that keep pushing for dishonest word game associations like the above. In fact, 90% of what you do in this thread could probably fall under the category of “word games”. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/307 "2013-02-10T15:23:00Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > A-theism makes sense but then you have the problem that you will be associated with apolitical and amoral. > > I took a year off from law school because I really wasn’t very good with word games, but somehow I managed to become a lawyer and end up debating about atheism on a message board. I wouldn’t call what you’re doing here ‘debating’ - we’re spending the overwhelming majority of the time trying to make sure we understand your point and that you understand ours (note: I did not say ‘agree with’). [QUOTE=pchaos] I’m starting to come to the same conclusion, beyond the lack of belief in God and other deities, atheism has little to offer. [/QUOTE] And exactly what does belief in ‘God’ or other deities offer that cannot be accomplished without said belief? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/308 "2013-02-10T15:23:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The only problem we have are people like you that keep pushing for dishonest word game associations like the above. In fact, 90% of what you do in this thread could probably fall under the category of “word games”. I have had no problem until now with “people like” our new friend, as I do not believe I have previously met anyone so atypical (Hah! another a- word!) in his definitions and associations. It feels like discussing things with Humpty Dumpty in a Monty Python sketch. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/309 "2013-02-10T15:24:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The only problem we have are people like you that keep pushing for dishonest word game associations like the above. In fact, 90% of what you do in this thread could probably fall under the category of “word games”. Well…I’m only stating an opinion about what I think the general public will do. Is it true or false. Is it really a stretch to put amoral, apolitical, and atheism in a group. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/310 "2013-02-10T15:28:29Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Well…I’m only stating an opinion about what I think the general public will do. Is it true or false. Is it really a stretch to put amoral, apolitical, and atheism in a group. Not if the grouping is “Words in Alphabetical Order,” but you would get as much useful information by grouping people by what colour socks they wear. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/311 "2013-02-10T15:30:15Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Well…I’m only stating an opinion about what I think the general public will do. Is it true or false. Is it really a stretch to put amoral, apolitical, and atheism in a group. Can you explain why moral, political, and theism belong together? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/312 "2013-02-10T15:30:16Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Well…I’m only stating an opinion about what I think the general public will do. Is it true or false. Is it really a stretch to put amoral, apolitical, and atheism in a group. Only those that are ignorant of the facts would do so - or those wishing to push an agenda that paints atheism as ‘evil’, which is what most theist’s appear to want to do. So, are you ignorant of the facts or are you pushing an agenda? ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/313 "2013-02-10T15:37:49Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Only those that are ignorant of the facts would do so - or those wishing to push an agenda that paints atheism as ‘evil’, which is what most theist’s appear to want to do. Do you really think that the public will go to the dictionary and actually look at what the words mean? I haven’t done that often and I don’t think the general public will either. Most theists already think of atheism as an irrational fringe group, I don’t think there’s a hidden agenda there. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/314 "2013-02-10T15:47:48Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Do you really think that the public will go to the dictionary and actually look at what the words mean? I haven’t done that often and I don’t think the general public will either. > > Most theists already think of atheism as an irrational fringe group, I don’t think there’s a hidden agenda there. Tell me, **pchaos** , how do you deal with all of the goat entrails that are left over after your sacrifices? Don’t tell me you don’t sacrifice goats. You’re a theist. My definition of theist is “one who sacrifices goats”. Don’t try to tell me I’m wrong. I’m not going to the dictionary to find what the word actually means. My definition works for me. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/315 "2013-02-10T15:51:08Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > Can you explain why moral, political, and theism belong together? Well duh. Clearly all moral and political authority is founded on the sacrifice of Jesus, and anyone who would deny one would reject all three, like a trifecta of asocial behaviour. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/316 "2013-02-10T15:53:14Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > Tell me, **pchaos** , how do you deal with all of the goat entrails that are left over after your sacrifices? Don’t tell me you don’t sacrifice goats. You’re a theist. My definition of theist is “one who sacrifices goats”. Don’t try to tell me I’m wrong. I’m not going to the dictionary to find what the word actually means. My definition works for me. Do you know who else has a church? _Satanists!_ ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/317 "2013-02-10T15:53:58Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Then the suffix -ism is misleading in this instance because it is commonly used to describe a world view, philosophy, or political movement. The word is best parsed as ‘a-theism’, i.e. without theism. The -ism belongs to the -the- (god) part, not the a- (without) part. In other words, ‘without a theistic world view or philosophy’. Atheism isn’t a world view, it’s a _lack_ of a particular type of world view, the theistic world view. It says nothing about what kind of world view the person might _actually_ have. It is not, itself, a world view. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/318 "2013-02-10T15:54:20Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > Tell me, **pchaos** , how do you deal with all of the goat entrails that are left over after your sacrifices? Don’t tell me you don’t sacrifice goats. You’re a theist. My definition of theist is “one who sacrifices goats”. Don’t try to tell me I’m wrong. I’m not going to the dictionary to find what the word actually means. My definition works for me. My point is simply there is no hidden agenda on the part of theists. You tell me there’s no God, okay, I understand that is what you believe. Now I ask you what do you have to offer…your come back is nothing much more. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/319 "2013-02-10T15:56:50Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Do you really think that the public will go to the dictionary and actually look at what the words mean? I haven’t done that often and I don’t think the general public will either. > > Most theists already think of atheism as an irrational fringe group, I don’t think there’s a hidden agenda there. So, you are ignorant of the facts and maintain that is the default position of the general public - you also seem to be happy in that ignorance. This also implies that you support spreading ignorance versus actually understanding ‘the other side’, in that you would not correct others if they thought such a thing. It’s not a ‘hidden’ agenda that theists (in general) want to demonize _anyone_ they disagree with - its just an agenda born out of ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/320 "2013-02-10T15:57:38Z")
Well, what do you need? A ride somewhere, help shoveling out your driveway, a few dollars until next payday, someone to sit at the pub with you and talk? It is difficult of just “offer” things without know what the other person wants. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579.md?page=17)