# Atheist Churches, Good or Bad Idea. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 7, 2013, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579 "2013-02-07T12:10:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/401 "2013-02-11T18:15:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > How do you know if atheists are taken seriously, and how do you know what they have to do to get people to take them seriously? And who are the people they need to convince? And what positive consequence is there to being taken seriously? ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/402 "2013-02-11T18:16:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > How do you know if atheists are taken seriously, and how do you know what they have to do to get people to take them seriously? And who are the people they need to convince? I wouldn’t be on this SDMB if I didn’t take you guys seriously. But like many people, I’m competitive and willing to make changes if it will improve my life. However, the greater the change I need to make then the greater the potential reward needs to be. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/403 "2013-02-11T18:18:01Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I wouldn’t be on this SDMB if I didn’t take you guys seriously. But like many people, I’m competitive and willing to make changes if it will improve my life. However, the greater the change I need to make then the greater the potential reward needs to be. What changes are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/404 "2013-02-11T18:18:44Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I wouldn’t be on this SDMB if I didn’t take you guys seriously. But like many people, I’m competitive and willing to make changes if it will improve my life. However, the greater the change I need to make then the greater the potential reward needs to be. That has absolutely nothing to do with the questions he just asked you. Are you picking your responses out of a hat or something? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/405 "2013-02-11T18:18:10Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Let me clarify. We are all greedy…that’s my assumption. Theists are already considered normal by society’s standards. In order for atheists to be taken seriously they need to offer an opportunity to at least meet that standard and exceed it. Why should we validate your greed? That is one of the Seven Deadly Sins, after all. Or do you want us to talk you out of your greediness? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/406 "2013-02-11T18:27:45Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > In order for atheists to be taken seriously they need to offer an opportunity to at least meet that standard and exceed it. But you said you’re already taking them seriously. Why can’t others follow your example? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/407 "2013-02-11T18:43:27Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > But like many people, I’m competitive and willing to make changes if it will improve my life. Repeat after me (a few hundred times): Atheism is a lack of belief in a god or gods only. Full stop. End of Line. Atheism has nothing to do with how you live your life. Atheists (most, anyway) have no interest in “converting” other people to atheism or proselytizing. All these points have been made repeatedly. Obviously, it’s not sinking in. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/408 "2013-02-11T18:44:52Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > But you said you’re already taking them seriously. Why can’t others follow your example? I’m lucky, I’ve been fairly successful and have the free time to post on SDMB. But other Theists may not be in the same situation. They’re smart enough to figure out that you don’t believe in God but what it seems like you’re offering is pretty much what they already have. Why should they make a major change in their lives now? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/409 "2013-02-11T18:46:38Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Why should they make a major change in their lives now? Who cares? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/410 "2013-02-11T18:48:21Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I’m lucky, I’ve been fairly successful and have the free time to post on SDMB. But other Theists may not be in the same situation. They’re smart enough to figure out that you don’t believe in God but what it seems like you’re offering is pretty much what they already have. Why should they make a major change in their lives now? Who is asking these hypothetical busy theists to make a change? If their life choices are working for them, why should they feel impelled to change? Why do you want anyone to consider an uprooting and uncomfortable change? The more I listen to you, the less likable a person you appear to be. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/411 "2013-02-11T18:49:10Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > but what it seems like you’re offering is pretty much what they already have. See my previous post. Atheists (most, anyway) are not interested in “converting” people or proselytizing. You’re projecting YOUR Christian values onto atheists. It’s not just atheists. Most Buddhists don’t go out of their way to “offer” anything. Nor do most Hindus or most Jews. The notion you have to go out and “spread the word” is a very Christian thing. You might use the word “theist”, but you really mean “Christian”, as your viewpoints are not even representative of a majority of the world’s theists. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/412 "2013-02-11T18:49:25Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Why should they make a major change in their lives now? That’s up to them. Do you think there is any chance you can comprehend the fact that atheism is not a religion and that atheists are basically disinterested in proselytizing - in fact most of them are inherently suspicious of it? They don’t have a vested interest in spreading their beliefs the way a lot of religious people do. They don’t think they’ll go to heaven for it and they don’t think they’re commanded to spread the word. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/413 "2013-02-11T18:50:20Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I’m lucky, I’ve been fairly successful and have the free time to post on SDMB. But other Theists may not be in the same situation. They’re smart enough to figure out that you don’t believe in God but what it seems like you’re offering is pretty much what they already have. Why should they make a major change in their lives now? Because they want to, or they don’t. Those are the valid reasons. No one’s knocking on doors, passing out atheist literature, or recruiting. It’s not something that’s preached. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/414 "2013-02-11T18:53:12Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Let me clarify. We are all greedy…that’s my assumption. Theists are already considered normal by society’s standards. In order for atheists to be taken seriously they need to offer an opportunity to at least meet that standard and exceed it. You are grasping at straws… that’s my observation. The fault lies within yourself , **pchaos**. It’s the reason you have the narrow, self centered world view that you espouse. It is also the very same reason you cannot or will not accept the genuinely honest answers that you’ve been given, repeatedly, not only in this thread but many others like it. I conjecture that your own personal belief system is so fragile and incomplete that it can only be bolstered by attempting to find weakness in the world view of others. And where you cannot find weakness, you create one with false definitions and fabricated constructs masquerading as facts. In order for atheists to take you seriously, you’ll have to start providing demonstrable evidence that you have the ability and willingness to learn and understand without your own obvious biases, fears and willful ignorance getting in the way. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/415 "2013-02-11T19:27:51Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Because they want to, or they don’t. Those are the valid reasons. Yes, also why have you guys spent so much time with a guy that doesn’t “get it.” Isn’t it obvious, there’s self-interest here, atheists don’t like being marginalized. True or False? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/416 "2013-02-11T19:31:02Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Yes, also why have you guys spent so much time with a guy that doesn’t “get it.” > > Isn’t it obvious, there’s self-interest here, atheists don’t like being marginalized. True or False? False - Whats the banner at the top of the page read? You are clearly ignorant of atheism (amongst many other things) - we’re trying to help you get beyond that - I could care less if you ever do, however. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/417 "2013-02-11T19:32:00Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Yes, also why have you guys spent so much time with a guy that doesn’t “get it.” You’re asking why a group interested in fighting ignorance is strenuously fighting ignorance? Seriously? And note that many of the people responding are actually theists - they get it, even if it’s not their personal belief. > [@pchaos](#): > > atheists don’t like being marginalized. True or False? False. I’m sure you can find some who do care. Most don’t. That said, nobody likes being actively persecuted. But as atheists haven’t been actively persecuted in the US in several decades, what does it matter? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/418 "2013-02-11T19:36:36Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I’m lucky, I’ve been fairly successful and have the free time to post on SDMB. But other Theists may not be in the same situation. They’re smart enough to figure out that you don’t believe in God but what it seems like you’re offering is pretty much what they already have. Why should they make a major change in their lives now? I swear, it’s like you’ve wandered into a marketplace with various stalls of people selling things and have spotted an empty stall with a guy leaning against it. **pchaos** : What are you selling? **Stall guy** : Me? Nothing. I’m just standing here. **pchaos** : You’re selling nothing? **Stall guy** : Yeah. **pchaos** : How much does your nothing cost? **Stall guy** : Huh? No, I mean.. **pchaos** : Why should I buy your nothing? What does your nothing offer that is better than the something I can get at the other stalls? Can you convince me of the quality of your nothing? **Stall guy** : Look, there’s nothing here! I’m not selling anything! **pchaos** : Yes, I know, you’re selling nothing. Now tell me more about this nothing of yours… ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/419 "2013-02-11T19:37:13Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Yes, also why have you guys spent so much time with a guy that doesn’t “get it.” > > Isn’t it obvious, there’s self-interest here, atheists don’t like being marginalized. True or False? Feh. We’ve had longer and more acrimonious discussion over who was the better Darrin on Bewitched. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/420 "2013-02-11T19:40:21Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Isn’t it obvious, there’s self-interest here, atheists don’t like being marginalized. True or False? I couldn’t care less but where I’m from it’s the religious that have become marginalized. So much so that I have to come to an American board just to find any. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579.md?page=22)