# Atheist Churches, Good or Bad Idea. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 7, 2013, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579 "2013-02-07T12:10:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/481 "2013-02-12T00:15:00Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > After you get rid of ignorance, there must be something that needs to be accomplished? Why not create a word for it now? I never said anything about a proposition to create new words. Your proposition was redefining a word that has a definition that fits it perfectly as I already showed you and if we redefine it, we’re going to need a new word that means _being without belief in the existence of any gods_. Do you understand that? ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/482 "2013-02-12T00:16:10Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > It _is_ fun to poke him with sticks, isn’t it. > > [Poke… poke, poke.] Look, it’s moving! > > Well _poke_ it _again!_ > > Ok. [poke, poke] > > [Snicker] Look! it twitches when I poke it! Hmmm…I thought I was poking you guys with sticks. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/483 "2013-02-12T00:17:10Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Hmmm…I thought I was poking you guys with sticks. Snort. Oh, sorry. I’ve got some tea coming out of my nose. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/484 "2013-02-12T00:35:27Z")
**pchaos** just like there are multiple faiths that include more than just belief in a god or gods, there are multiple worldviews that do not include belief in god or gods as part of their construct. Again, such is not a rejection of God, god, or gods, in those systems. You’ve already been referred to secular humanism. Buddhism also does not include a god-concept. They are non-belief in god worldviews but are not defined by the non-belief in god. They are not atheism even though they have no god belief. Others have more individual and personal worldviews that include no god concept. Ones that they alone share. These worldviews are about lots of things. You want to discuss what Buddhism offers? Secular humanism? Those are fine discussions to have. It is fun to learn about other belief systems. But neither is defined as a rejection of your concept of god. They are not about what they are not (they are not about belief in god); they, and all those myriad individual worldviews, are about what they are (very different things from each other). On preview: Do I read you right? Is that really what you are doing? Just trying to poke the board with sticks for that sake of stirring up a reaction? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/485 "2013-02-12T00:37:32Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > It _is_ fun to poke him with sticks, isn’t it. > > [Poke… poke, poke.] Look, it’s moving! > > Well _poke_ it _again!_ > > Ok. [poke, poke] > > [Snicker] Look! it twitches when I poke it! Not poking him with any sticks…but also not letting him get away with posting things about atheists that are untrue and/or contradictory. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/486 "2013-02-12T00:53:02Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > If you were able to get God out of our lexicon it would be major accomplishment. We’re not trying to do that. I think if you polled most atheists, few would say it’s even possible. > [@](#): > > After you get rid of ignorance Definitely not possible. Ignorance is just the condition of now knowing something. And it sounds like you’re saying again that The Straight Dope has something to do with atheism. It doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/487 "2013-02-12T01:08:24Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > **pchaos** > On preview: Do I read you right? Is that really what you are doing? Just trying to poke the board with sticks for that sake of stirring up a reaction? No, of course not. But we are making progress on this thread. Okay, let’s say we keep the term atheism unchanged. We still need a term that includes the hope that after we remove the ignorance surrounding atheism we will develop something better. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/488 "2013-02-12T01:12:44Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > No, of course not. But we are making progress on this thread. Okay, let’s say we keep the term atheism unchanged. We still need a term that includes the hope that after we remove the ignorance surrounding atheism we will develop something better. You want a word that defines someone as an unbeliever and that unbeliever wants something better than having that disbelief? If not, better than what? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/489 "2013-02-12T01:13:19Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > We still need a term that includes the hope that after we remove the ignorance surrounding atheism we will develop something better. Why? Once you understand that atheism means atheism, and thus remove your ignorance, atheism will continue to suffice for our needs. I don’t need something better. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/490 "2013-02-12T01:16:56Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > No, of course not. But we are making progress on this thread. Okay, let’s say we keep the term atheism unchanged. We still need a term that includes the hope that after we remove the ignorance surrounding atheism we will develop something better. The rest of us are where we need to be when it comes to understanding the basics of atheism, but you not only aren’t progressing-you are actually going backwards. ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/491 "2013-02-12T01:28:17Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > No, of course not. But we are making progress on this thread. Okay, let’s say we keep the term atheism unchanged. We still need a term that includes the hope that after we remove the ignorance surrounding atheism we will develop something better. I don’t believe … that pchaos is sincere. I think he’s presenting an attractive target to most of the serial posters in this thread to amuse himself. But still, I want to know … what, exactly IS the “ignorance surrounding atheism”? ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/492 "2013-02-12T01:30:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The rest of us are where we need to be when it comes to understanding the basics of atheism, but you not only aren’t progressing-you are actually going backwards. That’s horrible, Human Action is going to be so disappointed in me. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/493 "2013-02-12T01:32:45Z")
> [@SirGalahad](#): > > But still, I want to know … what, exactly IS the “ignorance surrounding atheism”? Well, **pchaos**? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/494 "2013-02-12T01:36:31Z")
pchaos, do I have to keep asking you to answer questions? I asked you questions immediately after your last post. Please answer. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/495 "2013-02-12T01:48:46Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > You want a word that defines someone as an unbeliever and that unbeliever wants something better than having that disbelief? If not, better than what? In many ways that disbelief is a plus, however, why stop there? Once the ignorance surrounding atheism is removed, there must be hope for a better life. If your going to keep the word atheism, then you need a word to describe the removal of ignorance and the better life your hoping for. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/496 "2013-02-12T01:51:53Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > In many ways that disbelief is a plus, however, why stop there? Once the ignorance surrounding atheism is removed, there must be hope for a better life. If your going to keep the word atheism, then you need a word to describe the removal of ignorance and the better life your hoping for. Re-run. What is the ignorance surrounding atheism? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/497 "2013-02-12T01:53:55Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > If your going to keep the word atheism, then you need a word to describe the removal of ignorance and the better life your hoping for. Why? Substitute “monotheism” here and your point is still equally vapid, i.e. you’re describing religion, specifically Christianity as practiced by you. Recall that many religions don’t establish a “better life” as the result of belief. Even Christianity (at least as it was initially practiced) promised only a better afterlife - suffering in the current one was necessary. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/498 "2013-02-12T02:02:25Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > In many ways that disbelief is a plus, however, why stop there? Once the ignorance surrounding atheism is removed You’ve also been asked three times to tell us what you think the ignorance surrounding atheism is. > [@](#): > > If your going to keep the word atheism Why wouldn’t it be kept? > [@](#): > > then you need a word to describe the removal of ignorance and the better life your hoping for. “Education” is a fine word. I might as well request this now: Please answer the questions you’ve been asked. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/499 "2013-02-12T02:07:47Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Recall that many religions don’t establish a “better life” as the result of belief. Even Christianity (at least as it was initially practiced) promised only a better afterlife - suffering in the current one was necessary. Well that’s it. I’ll be an example of the ignorance surrounding atheism and you will be an example of the hope for a better life now in order to differentiate ourselves from religion. We’ll call it Bobism. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/500 "2013-02-12T02:14:45Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Well that’s it. I’ll be an example of the ignorance surrounding atheism and you will be an example of the hope for a better life now in order to differentiate ourselves from religion. We’ll call it Bobism. This is atheism: a·the·ism [ey-thee-iz-uhm] noun 1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God. 2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings We will call it “atheism”, because that is what it is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579.md?page=26)