# Atheist Churches, Good or Bad Idea. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 7, 2013, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579 "2013-02-07T12:10:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/41 "2013-02-07T14:30:59Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > What would it be called then? I would call it a [“club”](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/club?s=t), as in “a group of persons organized for a social, literary, athletic, political, or other purpose.” ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/42 "2013-02-07T14:36:03Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I doubt there are any. When I read posts like [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15870785&postcount=16) where one atheists says that another atheist isn’t good enough to truly be an atheist, I expect that the atheist church will soon start having schisms. Perhaps someday the whole movement will split into three groups. Reform Atheists will believe that atheists should adjust to changing conditions, believing or not believing in God as the spirit of the age suggests. Conservative Atheists will believe that it’s necessary to hold a central non-belief in God, but that further strictures on certain other topics may be negotiable in certain situations. Orthodox Atheists will compile a work of 37 large volumes carefully explaining exactly what atheists must do in any imaginable situation. Yes, very droll. Anyway, I think **DrFidelius** is a theist of some sort or another. Back to the OP, I don’t really see how this would be different from a social club. Having an atheist church is like having a non-stamp collectors’ club. The only think non-stamp collectors have in common is that they don’t collect stamps. A UU church I could see, and I could sort-of see a Humanist club (although that’s still pretty broad). There’s simply no binding philosophy to atheists, though – you can believe or not in afterlives, ghosts, astrology, crystal power, ESP, all kinds of supernatural stuff, but still be atheist. You can be a communist or a fascist, liberal, conservative, Democrat or Republican. Self-identifying as an atheist says nothing about your knowledge or agreement with physics, the big bang, evolution. I could firmly believe that we’re in a matrix-like simulation game and be an atheist. I could think that evolution was directed by aliens, while they develop a species advance enough to be interesting prey, and be atheist. Atheism says nothing about whether you care for your fellow man, the origins of the universe, nothing at all about anything but your belief in a higher power. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/43 "2013-02-07T14:51:30Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > What would it be called then? whatever the folks want to call it - but in general, what **Human Action** said - a ‘club’. ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Cumberdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumberdale)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/44 "2013-02-07T15:06:27Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > What would it be called then? I have no problem with calling it a church. It does serve essentially the same function as a traditional church without all the woo woo nonsense. It meets at the same time most churches meet in this country and fill the same role for the community. For people like me, who when I was looking for a church to belong to because I felt I needed to, seeing a Freethought Church among the listings would have been perfect. Because there is a mindset that “church” is a commitment, more people appear to make an effort to attend, whereas a club people can blow off more easily. (of course this is from my perspective and others may or probably don’t agree) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/45 "2013-02-07T15:11:24Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > What would it be called then? What would you call a gathering of those who don’t race cars? What are their common goals and attitudes? What charities would they support? What political party do they belong to? What do they think about the Big Bang? And once again-_What is your current definition of atheist, **pchaos**?_ ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/46 "2013-02-07T15:15:53Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I doubt it. Like other churches, they would want to pull in new members. In particular, they might discuss why agnostics should become atheists. No, that’s not true. The groups I know of don’t require that members be atheists. Agnostics and religious people are also welcome (it’s mostly Unitarian types, I’m sure). My experience is that they discuss issues, not their beliefs about gods or religious. And they don’t proselytize and don’t argue that people should become atheists because, as I said, you don’t have to be an atheist to be a member. It’s the same way with Unitarian Universalists, since their spirituality is sort of optional and plenty of atheists and agnostics go to those types of churches. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/47 "2013-02-07T15:31:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What is your current definition of atheist, **pchaos**?\* The same definition that appears in Webster’s. ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/48 "2013-02-07T15:37:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What would be preached at an atheist church? I occasionally attend an [atheist church](http://www.houstonoasis.org/) (actually they nickname it a “nurch” for non-church) in Houston. Their scripture is the writings of Dan Dennett and Michael Shermer. Most sermons contain the term “evolutionary psychology”. It’s a great idea. Humans are tribal creatures, and a church-like community provides a tribe. Most Sundays I prefer to sleep in and then spend the day outdoors with the kids, but we go to services when the musician sounds interesting, when a documentary film crew is there, and when we are asked to provide childcare. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/49 "2013-02-07T17:33:21Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > The same definition that appears in Webster’s. Your previous posts beg to differ. Also, “Webster’s” isn’t a single dictionary ([one old thread among many on the topic](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=283766)). Anybody can create a Webster’s dictionary (which I suppose, is what you’ve done here). Merriam-Webster is a bit different, though. As repeatedly stated earlier, the suggestion is more a club than anything else. There’s no real statement of belief or credo to follow, and collections could be taxed. If the tax exempt status of religious organizations is important, I suppose the group could be dedicated to do charitable works, which would still make it more of a local charity than a place of worship. Also, I prefer atheist synagogues to atheist churches. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/50 "2013-02-07T17:35:44Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > The same definition that appears in Webster’s. Please enlighten us as to which definition of which Websters you are referring to? A simple cut and paste of the definition would be a nice response. ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/51 "2013-02-07T17:47:06Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Questions like this show that you continue to just not ‘get it’. > > Athiests, in general, do not need an excuse or a place to get together - there may be individuals that enjoy a repeating community type approach - but it still wouldn’t be called a “church”. There’s one in Houston that meets in an office building. Same basic form as a religious service: readings, sermon, collection of donations, music, announcement of activities, doughnuts and coffee. I figure if basketball players and comedians can steal the word “jam” from Jazz musicians, then Atheists can appropriate “church”. Why not? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/52 "2013-02-07T17:52:39Z")
> [@SirGalahad](#): > > There’s one in Houston that meets in an office building. Same basic form as a religious service: readings, sermon, collection of donations, music, announcement of activities, doughnuts and coffee. > > I figure if basketball players and comedians can steal the word “jam” from Jazz musicians, then Atheists can appropriate “church”. Why not? Because taking on the trappings of a church could backfire when trying to put across that atheism isn’t a religion. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/53 "2013-02-07T17:54:25Z")
I don’t think this argument over whether it’s a church or not is important. If it’s not a church, it’s a similar idea for nonbelievers. But it’s not a church of atheism as such, and I’m not sure the OP understands what these people believe or why they’re gathering. I also don’t see how this is going to wind up as a good thing or a bad thing. If it’s something people feel they need, I don’t see the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/54 "2013-02-07T17:59:29Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I doubt it. Like other churches, they would want to pull in new members. In particular, they might discuss why agnostics should become atheists. “We’d like to thank our guest speaker for his presentation on ‘Why Jehovah Doesn’t Exist’. Next week’s speaker will be Olaf Gunderson who will speak on ‘Why Odin Doesn’t Exist’.” > [@pchaos](#): > > What would it be called then? > [@Human\_Action](#): > > I would call it a [“club”](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/club?s=t), as in “a group of persons organized for a social, literary, athletic, political, or other purpose.” \*John Bender: What do you guys do in your club? Brian Johnson: Well, in physics we… we talk about physics, properties of physics. John Bender: So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social. Right? \* ---
**Author:** ![tomcar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tomcar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomcar)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/55 "2013-02-07T17:59:39Z")
So do you describe your self as “atheistic but not religious?” ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/56 "2013-02-07T18:45:47Z")
> [@SirGalahad](#): > > There’s one in Houston that meets in an office building. Same basic form as a religious service: readings, sermon, collection of donations, music, announcement of activities, doughnuts and coffee. > > I figure if basketball players and comedians can steal the word “jam” from Jazz musicians, then Atheists can appropriate “church”. Why not? Using the[Dictionary definition of “Church”](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/church) - > [@](#): > > 1 > : a building for public and especially Christian worship > 2 > : the clergy or officialdom of a religious body > 3 > often capitalized : a body or organization of religious believers: as > a : the whole body of Christians > b : denomination \ > c : congregation > 4 > : a public divine worship \ > 5 > : the clerical profession \ There is no definition of Church that fits an athiestic ‘get together’. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/57 "2013-02-07T18:47:46Z")
I would go once or twice out of curiosity, but a big part of my atheism is laziness: I don’t want to do anything or go anywhere or donate any money to anybody ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/58 "2013-02-07T18:52:56Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I would go once or twice out of curiosity, but a big part of my atheism is laziness: I don’t want to do anything or go anywhere or donate any money to anybody oh, so your a member of the lazy As? ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/59 "2013-02-07T19:17:20Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > What would it be called then? I was going to suggest _achurch_, but I guess that implies not believing in churches and I can’t do that. There’s undeniable physical evidence for one at the end of my block. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/60 "2013-02-07T19:22:52Z")
> [@simster](#): > > oh, so your a member of the lazy As? I’ll tell you later [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579.md?page=4)