# Atheist Churches, Good or Bad Idea. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 7, 2013, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579 "2013-02-07T12:10:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/101 "2013-02-08T13:10:22Z")
And I’ve got no problems with regular get-togethers with atheists with like-minded interests but, as in the case of churches, different atheists have different like-minded interests. Also, I’d like to repeat my objection to anything that smells of religion, like the words “church” and “services”, as it just makes it harder to counter the ever present “Atheism is just another belief system/religion” argument made by some religionists. edited to add:ninja’d by **prr**. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/102 "2013-02-08T13:22:33Z")
I’ve got an idea. Why don’t all the people that don’t watch professional hockey get together and start a church? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/103 "2013-02-08T13:24:00Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I thought it was intended to be about all three. Sorry if I misunderstood something. The point I (and others) have been trying to make is that it is valid to distinguish UU and RJ from A. UU and RJ stand for something - some shared set of values or beliefs. Whereas A simply refers to one thing that some people reject. If someone thought UUs simply got together to talk about what they did not believe, they would be mistaken. Also, isn’t “hard” atheism somewhat close to a religion - an unproveable belief system? My personal preference is the term “nontheist” which, as I understand it, signifies that there is no rational evidence of theism and the issue just isn’t very important. Or - as I’ve said - I prefer terms such as Humanism (or Naturalism), which refer to things I DO believe in and value, rather than one silly thing I reject. Calling oneself atheist in one way sprt of gives credence to the believers, in that you consider their myth important enough to single it out. WHy not call yourself Awitchcraft? Avoodoo? Afairies? Adragons? Asupernatural? Of course, that last one will get pedants arguing whether a deity is or is not super-natural. And I am not interested in such efforts. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/104 "2013-02-08T13:29:50Z")
Changing the term from “atheist” to “nontheist” wouldn’t make a whit of difference to religionists making the “It’s a belief system/religion” argument, because they have no intention of debating honestly. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/105 "2013-02-08T14:09:32Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t think this argument over whether it’s a church or not is important. If it’s not a church, it’s a similar idea for nonbelievers. But it’s not a church of atheism as such, and I’m not sure the OP understands what these people believe or why they’re gathering. I also don’t see how this is going to wind up as a good thing or a bad thing. If it’s something people feel they need, I don’t see the problem. So far, it appears that the overall sentiment is that it’s a bad thing to have atheist churches, but there’s no consensus on what if any institution would replace it. Of course, the situation is in flux and may take a long time before the picture gets clearer. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/106 "2013-02-08T14:12:02Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > So far, it appears that the overall sentiment is that it’s a bad thing to have atheist churches, but there’s no consensus on what if any institution would replace it. Of course, the situation is in flux and may take a long while before the picture gets clearer. Why do we need any institution to replace it? We are not an organized group, we have no common interests, and we have no common goals. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/107 "2013-02-08T14:21:52Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > So far, it appears that the overall sentiment is that it’s a bad thing to have atheist churches, but there’s no consensus on what if any institution would replace it. Of course, the situation is in flux and may take a long time before the picture gets clearer. Not “bad.” Unneeded, unnecessary, and uncalled for. I do see that you define yourself as a member of a given church, and you like that a lot, and cannot understand why anyone would want to not have the type of community you have in your church. But, as has been said several times, if you take the religion out of a church (temple, mosque, sacred grove) what you have left is a social club. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/108 "2013-02-08T14:25:05Z")
I was going to say if you want community spirit and involvement, like many churches provide, but without the god factor, why not join a service organization like Lions, Rotary or Elks? Then I couldn’t think of one that didn’t have a religious orientation, even if minimized or generalized. Are there any? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/109 "2013-02-08T14:26:16Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > So far, it appears that the overall sentiment is that it’s a bad thing to have atheist churches, but there’s no consensus on what if any institution would replace it. Of course, the situation is in flux and may take a long time before the picture gets clearer. How can it get any ‘clearer’ ? Atheist is not a religion or thing you are a ‘member of’ - there is no need for an ‘atheistic church’ in the normal sense of the word - that does not mean that groups of people (atheist or not) might not form a community or ‘club’ with regular meetings to attain some goals - In short - it does not ‘need’ nor ‘require’ an institution to replace it - people will find a way to group together as they see fit (or not - I go fishing on sundays). And its not a ‘bad’ thing to have an atheistic ‘church’ - its a nonsensical thing - given the overall religous overtone of the word ‘church’. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/110 "2013-02-08T14:26:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Changing the term from “atheist” to “nontheist” wouldn’t make a whit of difference to religionists making the “It’s a belief system/religion” argument, because they have no intention of debating honestly. I really don’t care about debating religionists. My preference for words other than atheist is personal. Hell, if I’m going to define myself in terms of what I reject, I’d rather use Aasshole. There’s a hell of a lot more evidence of their existence than any deity, and they have a lot more to do with the quality of my daily life than any particular myth. Theism is bullshit - but it is a brand of bullshit accepted by a huge portion of my species. Okay, I accept that. So I feel the most productive use of my resources is to minimize the adverse effect their irrational beliefs have on my life. At one point in my life I derived great benefit from belonging to a UU church in which I could see that I was not alone, and that people did not conclude I was a bad person because of my nonbelief. It especially helped when I was raising kids. But now, it just doesn’t matter to me. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/111 "2013-02-08T14:51:09Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Theism is bullshit - but it is a brand of bullshit accepted by a huge portion of my species. Okay, I accept that. So I feel the most productive use of my resources is to minimize the adverse effect their irrational beliefs have on my life. At one point in my life I derived great benefit from belonging to a UU church in which I could see that I was not alone, and that people did not conclude I was a bad person because of my nonbelief. It especially helped when I was raising kids. But now, it just doesn’t matter to me. I agree with 90% of what you said, but I’m still going to hide my bible under my jacket when I walk into UU or a similar institution. A major reason for creating any type of institution is to pass the values to the kids and next generation. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/112 "2013-02-08T14:59:20Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > I was going to say if you want community spirit and involvement, like many churches provide, but without the god factor, why not join a service organization like Lions, Rotary or Elks? Then I couldn’t think of one that didn’t have a religious orientation, even if minimized or generalized. Are there any? [Rotary International](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_club) is secular: > [@](#): > > It is a secular organization open to all persons regardless of race, colour, creed, religion, gender, or political preference. That’s the only one I could find, though. > [@pchaos](#): > > I agree with 90% of what you said, but I’m still going to hide my bible under my jacket when I walk into UU or a similar institution. May I ask why? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/113 "2013-02-08T15:00:16Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I agree with 90% of what you said, but I’m still going to hide my bible under my jacket when I walk into UU or a similar institution. > > A major reason for creating any type of institution is to pass the values to the kids and next generation. What do you expect that bible to do for you ? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/114 "2013-02-08T15:02:04Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > So far, it appears that the overall sentiment is that it’s a bad thing to have atheist churches, but there’s no consensus on what if any institution would replace it. I don’t know what thread you’ve been reading. I see a few people who’ve said they don’t like the idea, but I think most said they don’t care and argued about whether or not this is really a church. And I tried to explain to you why these things aren’t exactly atheists churches. They’re not institutions and since most atheists don’t participate in this stuff in the first place, there’s been no thought about replacing them. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > Sorry if I misunderstood something. The point I (and others) have been trying to make is that it is valid to distinguish UU and RJ from A. UU and RJ stand for something - some shared set of values or beliefs. Whereas A simply refers to one thing that some people reject. All of that is true. But some general common ground can be found among atheists, particularly if you know ahead of time that they’re atheists who are looking for a community to do things like discuss ethics and charity work. > [@](#): > > Also, isn’t “hard” atheism somewhat close to a religion - an unproveable belief system? I still think that’s just a belief about one thing, not a system- but hard atheists don’t want for fervor. > [@pchaos](#): > > I agree with 90% of what you said, but I’m still going to hide my bible under my jacket when I walk into UU or a similar institution. I’m pretty sure a UU church will have its own Bibles. I’ve never heard of a BYOB church. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/115 "2013-02-08T15:10:14Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > A major reason for creating any type of institution is to pass the values to the kids and next generation. Please enlighten us-What _common_ values do you think atheists have? ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/116 "2013-02-08T15:13:00Z")
> [@simster](#): > > What do you expect that bible to do for you ? It’s just in case this “church” doesn’t have a bible. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/117 "2013-02-08T15:17:22Z")
If you visited a temple with a Jewish friend, would you bring your bible in with you there too? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/118 "2013-02-08T15:20:32Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > It’s just in case this “church” doesn’t have a bible. For the luvva…UU isn’t an atheist church, and Christians are certainly welcome there. If you wish to dispell any ignorance you have about UU, please read [this.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism) edited to add: And it’s not a “church”-it’s a Church. If I as an atheist can show respect to beliefs I may not hold, you can certainly do the same. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/119 "2013-02-08T15:20:36Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > It’s just in case this “church” doesn’t have a bible. But you implied ‘concealed carry’ - [QUOTE=pchaos] but I’m still going to hide my bible under my jacket when I walk into UU or a similar institution [/QUOTE] like it was armor or something - or possibly a ‘weapon’ against the members of the UU church. Everyone, watchout - **pchaos** has a bible - and he’s not afraid to use it! ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579/120 "2013-02-08T15:22:42Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > If you visited a temple with a Jewish friend, would you bring your bible in with you there too? No. I’d probably look around the temple to see if there was a used OT that I could borrow lying around. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-churches-good-or-bad-idea/649579.md?page=7)