# Atheist Dopers - would you raise your children religious? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 16, 2008, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-dopers-would-you-raise-your-children-religious/433724 "2008-01-16T10:58:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-dopers-would-you-raise-your-children-religious/433724/41 "2008-01-16T19:07:05Z")
If I had kids, and they were curious about religion I’d tell them about it from the vantage point of an agnostic atheist who was brought up Catholic. If, after that they still wanted to explore religion I’d have to let them, but I’d definitely try to provide a consistent counterpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-dopers-would-you-raise-your-children-religious/433724/42 "2008-01-16T19:23:57Z")
Problem is that my wife is religious. Or rather still has religious feelings in that there must be something out there, a Big Boss. So she does want to teach them the ‘old stories’ and I’m okay with that. I mean, I learned them as true and was able to outgrow it so why shouldn’t my kids. Every now and then though her feelings grow deeper and she would like them to grow up ‘in the bosom of the Church’ with the feeling of belonging that she used to feel. That would mean having them baptised which would, in turn, mean that I myself should swear to raise them as good Catholics. NO FFING WAY ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-dopers-would-you-raise-your-children-religious/433724/43 "2008-01-16T19:35:54Z")
It would seem bizarre to me. Which religion would I choose? Since I don’t believe God exists, a fortiori I don’t know which religion/denomination is the correct one, so it would seem arbitrary to pick _this particular_ faith for my child to have. I mean, if one religion is better than the others, there must be some reason why it is. If our daughter is able to discern such a reason when she is older, she is free to join that church. I won’t try to indoctrinate her into atheism; but I won’t outsource her indoctrination either. ---
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-dopers-would-you-raise-your-children-religious/433724/44 "2008-01-16T20:08:07Z")
My SO and I aren’t religious. Religion isn’t a part of our lives at all. So there’s little good reason to raise our kids as anything other than the heathen sinners we are. We will educate them and encourage them to figure the world out for themselves, but to actively encourage a dogma that isn’t ours? Can’t, and won’t, do it. I would be reluctant to send my kids to a better but religious school. That feels disrespectful to the faithful somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-dopers-would-you-raise-your-children-religious/433724/45 "2008-01-16T20:12:11Z")
No, I can’t in good conscience indoctrinate my kids. Religion is an open topic of discussion around our house and each kid had attended some kind of church at least a couple of times, but I just can’t bring myself to take them regularly to any kind of church. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-dopers-would-you-raise-your-children-religious/433724/46 "2008-01-16T20:14:51Z")
[QUOTE=Malthus] With my son, I faced a difficult dilemma, because my wife is Catholic: how do I tell my Protestant best friend and his Muslim wife that they were not Catholic enough to be godparents to the son of this Jew? [/QUOTE] That’s odd: I’m godfather to two Catholic children (and a Protestant one), and my atheism was well known to both sets of parents. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-dopers-would-you-raise-your-children-religious/433724/47 "2008-01-16T20:24:46Z")
No, because I would have had to hold my tongue if they came home spouting nonsense. Not to mention it was important to me to raise skeptical, questioning kids, and that doesn’t go well with most religions. What I did was to go through the beginning of Genesis with them when they were about in 7th grade, pointing out the obvious contradictions and the evidence of separate authorship of the different sections. The purpose was to help them read critically. After that, we didn’t oppose them going with friends to religious youth groups and things. I trusted them to be able to listen critically to the indoctrination while having fun. This trust was well placed. At home I set an example of how religion was not necessary. It worked, they are both adults and both atheists. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-dopers-would-you-raise-your-children-religious/433724/48 "2008-01-16T20:32:31Z")
[QUOTE=Illuminatiprimus] Would you as an atheist be willing to bring up your children religious? If so why? Would you be happy to bring up your children open to the idea of faith (or lack thereof) or would you flat out say to them “there is no God, anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong”. [/QUOTE] My dad was raised religious, but became an agnostic as an adult. He allowed and even encouraged me to attend Sunday School and church as a kid. As an adult I wound up taking his path to atheism. I would have no problem with my (still hypothetical at this point) kids attending church. I doubt any indoctrination would stick into adulthood (didn’t for me or my dad, or my sister), and I think it’s actually good to have some cultural (if not spiritual) grounding in the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-dopers-would-you-raise-your-children-religious/433724/49 "2008-01-16T20:34:27Z")
[QUOTE=Latro] That would mean having them baptised which would, in turn, mean that I myself should swear to raise them as good Catholics. NO FFING WAY [/QUOTE] On the other hand, what’s your punishment for swearing insincerely? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-dopers-would-you-raise-your-children-religious/433724/50 "2008-01-16T20:50:55Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] That’s odd: I’m godfather to two Catholic children (and a Protestant one), and my atheism was well known to both sets of parents. [/QUOTE] Hey, I’m just going by what I was told, since I am not Catholic myself. Allegedly in Catholicism you gotta be Catholic to be a proper “Godfather”, though if you are a Protestant you can be a “witness”. A Muslim (or athiest) is right out. A bit of Googling tends to confirm this: [http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0233.html](http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0233.html) > **[Godparent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godparent#Roman_Catholic_Church)** > > Within Christianity, a godparent or sponsor is someone who bears witness to a child's baptism (christening) and later is willing to help in their catechesis, as well as their lifelong spiritual formation. In both religious and civil views, a godparent tends to be an individual chosen by the parents to take an interest in the child's upbringing and personal development, and to offer mentorship. A male godparent is a godfather, and a female godparent is a godmother. The child is a godchil As early... Of course, some churches take this stuff more seriously than others - my wife’s family’s church does, so I could not have my friends as “godparents”. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-dopers-would-you-raise-your-children-religious/433724/51 "2008-01-16T21:04:30Z")
More cites on catholic godparents: > **[The role of the godparent](https://www.catholicdoors.com/courses/godpar.htm)** > > The Catholic Door Ministry > presents the Bible course The Role Of The Godparent. > [@](#): > > TO QUALIFY AS A GODPARENT > 12. Not everyone qualifies to be a godparent. The Catholic Church provides a detailed guideline that must be obeyed. “To be admitted to undertake the office of sponsor, a person must:” (Canon 874.1) > > 12.1 “be appointed by the candidate for baptism, or by the parents or whoever stands in their place, or failing these, by the parish priest or the minister; to be appointed the person must be suitable for this role and have the intention of fulfilling it;” (Canon 874.1.1) > > 12.2 “be not less than sixteen years of age, unless a different age has been stipulated by the diocesan Bishop, or unless the parish priest or the minister considers that there is a just reason for an exception to be made;” (Canon 874.1.2) > > 12.3 “be a catholic who has been confirmed and has received the blessed Eucharist, and who lives a life of faith which befits the role to be undertaken;” (Canon 874.1.3) > > 12.4 “not labour under a canonical penalty, whether imposed or declared;” (Canon 874.1.4) > > 12.5 “not be either the father or the mother of the person to be baptised.” (Canon 874.1.5) > > 12.6 “A baptised person who belongs to a non-catholic ecclesial community may be admitted only in company with a catholic sponsor, and then simply as a witness to the baptism.” (Canon 874.2) > [@](#): > > DISQUALIFYING AS A GODPARENT > 13. What follows is a list of personal characteristics that disqualify a person as a godparent: > > 13.1 the person has no intention of fulfilling his obligations as a godparent. > > 13.2 the person is younger than the age that has been stipulated by the diocesan Bishop, usually age 16. > > 13.3 the person is not a Catholic. > > 13.4 the person has not received the Sacrament of Baptism in the Catholic faith. > > 13.5 the person has not received the Sacrament of Confirmation in the Catholic faith. > > 13.6 the person has not received the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist in the Catholic faith. > > 13.7 the person is not living his faith in accordance with the teachings of the Catholic Church. (Example: The person has not been at Mass for 2, 5 or 10 years. The person employs birth control methods.) > > 13.8 the person belongs to a religious Order (preventing him/her from making this commitment). > > 13.9 the person is the spouse of the one seeking Baptism. > > 13.10 the person is a biological or adoptive father or mother of the child. > > 13.11 the person has incurred an official excommunication or “latae sententiae,” by the very commission of the offense. (Example: involved in one or more abortions.) > > 13.12 the person is a member of a condemned society. > > 13.13 the person is a public sinner. (Example: Prostitution, living common-law.) > > 13.14 the person is a heretic. “Heresy is the obstinate post- baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same.” (C.C.C. # 2089) > > 13.15 the person belongs to a schism. “Schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.” (C.C.C. # 2089) > > 13.16 the person is involved in a mix-marriage and believes his/her children should choose their own religion when they grow up. > > 13.17 the person believes that all religions are equal or that other religions are equal to the Catholic Church. > > 13.18 the person is involved in an invalid marriage. (Example: Justice of the Peace, marriage outside the Church.) > > 13.19 the person is not registered with a parish, not belonging to any specific faith community. Ironically, there is no way I could be a “godparent” myself … 😃 ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-dopers-would-you-raise-your-children-religious/433724/52 "2008-01-16T21:31:28Z")
Is anyone else noticing the common theme of “I am an atheist and my wife is Roman Catholic?” It seems to be coming up quite a bit. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-dopers-would-you-raise-your-children-religious/433724/53 "2008-01-16T21:59:59Z")
[QUOTE=flight] Is anyone else noticing the common theme of “I am an atheist and my wife is Roman Catholic?” It seems to be coming up quite a bit. [/QUOTE] Jews and Catholics are another common pairing (says the atheist Jew married to the lapsed agnostic Catholic)… ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-dopers-would-you-raise-your-children-religious/433724/54 "2008-01-16T22:06:15Z")
[QUOTE=flight] Is anyone else noticing the common theme of “I am an atheist and my wife is Roman Catholic?” It seems to be coming up quite a bit. [/QUOTE] What can I say? They turn us on! ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-dopers-would-you-raise-your-children-religious/433724/55 "2008-01-16T22:14:29Z")
[QUOTE=Malthus] Of course, some churches take this stuff more seriously than others - my wife’s family’s church does, so I could not have my friends as “godparents”. [/QUOTE] Since both my Catholic godchildren are in Ireland, I’m guessing Irish Catholicism, like other aspects of life in Ireland, honours the rules more in the breach than the observance… ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-dopers-would-you-raise-your-children-religious/433724/56 "2008-01-16T22:18:21Z")
Ironically I’m a godparent as well - well, I am technically, I no longer associate with the people I was made godparent to so it’s academic whether I should have been made one at all (just as well really considering I’m a Satanist, isn’t it?). ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-dopers-would-you-raise-your-children-religious/433724/57 "2008-01-16T22:49:30Z")
I’m atheist, and live in a generally atheist country, the Netherlands. Would I raise my kid in any religion? I’d hope to follow the example of Barack Obama’s atheist mom, and how she raised little Obama, as cited on [Snopes.](http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp) . > [@](#): > > Of his mother’s religious views, Senator Obama wrote: > For my mother, organized religion too often dressed up closed-mindedness in the garb of piety, cruelty and oppression in the cloak of righteousness. This isn’t to say that she provided me with no religious instruction. In her mind, a working knowledge of the world’s great religions was a necessary part of any well-rounded education. In our household the Bible, the Koran, and the Bhagavad Gita sat on the shelf alongside books of Greek and Norse and African mythology. On Easter or Christmas Day my mother might drag me to church, just as she dragged me to the Buddhist temple, the chinese New Year celebration, the Shinto shrine, and ancient Hawaiian burial sites. But I was made to understand that such religious samplings required no sustained commitment on my part. Religion was an expression of human culture, she would explain, not its wellspring, just one of the many ways — and not necessarily the best way — that man attempted to control the unknowable and understand the deeper truths about our lives. In sum, my mother viewed religion through the eyes of the anthropologist she would become; it was a phenomenon to be treated with a suitable respect, but with a suitable detachment as well. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-dopers-would-you-raise-your-children-religious/433724/58 "2008-01-16T22:55:33Z")
I’m a godparent to one of my nephews. I look at it this way. a) The Catholic Church has rules. a)-1 Those rules apply to Catholics. b) I no longer believe in a god and have no active relationship with the Catholic Church, therefore I am not a Catholic. b)-1 Those rules do not apply to me. c)Therefore, even though I’m an atheist, I’m not breaking any rules _that I recognize as valid_ by being a godparent. I would, if necessary respect my sisters wishes with regard to the raising of her son, even if I don’t believe as she does. To me,that should be enough. ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-dopers-would-you-raise-your-children-religious/433724/59 "2008-01-16T22:55:36Z")
No. Absolutely not. I’ll probably celebrate Christmas but I couldn’t even in good conscious celebrate Easter (other than to go to family things). I might do my best to teach them about religions but I’d cover them all equally mostly so they understand what all the fuss is all about. To be honest, I don’t see myself marrying someone who is so religious that they’d want to raise our children religious so it shouldn’t be an issue. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-dopers-would-you-raise-your-children-religious/433724/60 "2008-01-16T23:09:14Z")
[QUOTE=Pushkin] I’ve no choice in the matter, in Northern Ireland religious studies are mandatory right up until age 16. But outside of that, I wouldn’t force something on my child that I saw as wrong. [/QUOTE] Is that actual instruction in the RCC or CoE, or just “religious studies” as in learning about the various world religions? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-dopers-would-you-raise-your-children-religious/433724.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-dopers-would-you-raise-your-children-religious/433724.md?page=4)