# Atheist getting married in Catholic church - need help with readings **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 20, 2010, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-getting-married-in-catholic-church-need-help-with-readings/525665 "2010-01-20T05:36:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-getting-married-in-catholic-church-need-help-with-readings/525665/41 "2010-01-20T19:48:49Z")
To actually answer the question in the OP, > [@Rala](#): > > That’s actually Song of Songs 6:3. There are a lot of good passages in there. I particularly like 8: 6-7: > “Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm; for love is as strong as death, its jealousy\* unyielding as the grave. It burns like blazing fire, like a mighty flame. Many waters cannot quench love; rivers cannot sweep it away. If one were to give all the wealth of one’s house for love, it would be utterly scorned.” > \*Some translations have ‘ardour’ instead of ‘jealousy’. I second this. We had Song of Songs 8:7 read by a friend who was an atheist, so I wanted to find something that I knew she would be comfortable with (she’s a good friend, so she said she’d read anything, but still.) Our other reading was by someone who was Jewish, so we didn’t want it to be overtly Christian. We used Colossians 3:12-14. I guess you could redact the mentions of God for an atheist. 12 Put on then, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, 13 bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. 14 And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-getting-married-in-catholic-church-need-help-with-readings/525665/42 "2010-01-20T19:50:08Z")
Why is ceremonial deism suddenly a no-no here? What, do you people look down on atheists who don’t refuse to say “under God” in the Pledge too? ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-getting-married-in-catholic-church-need-help-with-readings/525665/43 "2010-01-20T19:51:54Z")
I guess I just don’t think that the OP’s in-laws have a right (or any need) to know the exact state of his belief in God. What business is it of theirs? As long as he loves their daughter, they have zero right to pry into his personal spiritual life. Every time you change your belief in God, you don’t have to tell everyone about it. It’s your personal choice. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-getting-married-in-catholic-church-need-help-with-readings/525665/44 "2010-01-20T19:53:44Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > I guess I just don’t think that the OP’s in-laws have a right (or any need) to know the exact state of his belief in God. What business is it of theirs? As long as he loves their daughter, they have zero right to pry into his personal spiritual life. > > Every time you change your belief in God, you don’t have to tell everyone about it. It’s your personal choice. The Catholic Church however, has the right to set the rules on who they will marry. They have a right to know his state of belief, and he has lied to them. And, yes, the Catholic Church has been known to lie. Does two wrongs make a right in this case? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-getting-married-in-catholic-church-need-help-with-readings/525665/45 "2010-01-20T19:55:17Z")
What’s the harm? Church gets a big fat check; the OP gets a nice location for his wedding; the families are satisfied, at least for the time being. ---
**Author:** ![Barrett\_Bonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@Barrett\_Bonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrett_Bonden)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-getting-married-in-catholic-church-need-help-with-readings/525665/46 "2010-01-20T20:00:53Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What’s the harm? Church gets a big fat check; the OP gets a nice location for his wedding; the families are satisfied, at least for the time being. Because it is his name; because he cannot have another in his life. (Eh, that’s my theory.) ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-getting-married-in-catholic-church-need-help-with-readings/525665/47 "2010-01-20T20:05:14Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > The Catholic Church however, has the right to set the rules on who they will marry. They have a right to know his state of belief, and he has lied to them. > > And, yes, the Catholic Church has been known to lie. Does two wrongs make a right in this case? Where we differ is that I don’t see a wrong here. The OP has been confirmed-he really is Catholic, he just doesn’t believe. I don’t think he has any obligation to torpedo his wedding and relationship with his future in-laws to avoid telling a white lie to an institution with a decidedly chequered past and present. I would have no qualms about telling he same white lie to any religious institution. Family peace is the greater good than being 100% honest to some man-made institution that claims to have dibs on your soul. ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-getting-married-in-catholic-church-need-help-with-readings/525665/48 "2010-01-20T20:06:30Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > I just don’t think pretending to be religious to “keep the peace with the bride’s family” is the way to go here. Better to be open and honest, deal with the mutterings and gossip (which I’m 90% certain won’t be as bad as the OP thinks they will), and wait for the whole thing to die down. > > I’ve been there, saying non-committal stuff to family members so as to not have to tell them I don’t go to church any more. It sucks. It’s better to get it out in the open and get it over with, and I am saying this as a procrastinator who abhors confrontations. I don’t think this is the time to break this particular secret to the family. If they want her family to come to the wedding at all (or want them to come to the wedding without sobbing through the ceremony while wearing all black to demonstrate the mourning of their loss of religion) they would probably be best suited to keep their mouths shut. I am currently planning a wedding and my family has been insistent on a few things that I just let go because otherwise it would cause a problem. Luckily since they know I am marrying someone Jewish (my family is Lutheran) they haven’t thrown any fits about chapels or ministers or anything, but I can hear the sadness in my mother’s voice when I mention having a [ketubah](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketubah) ceremony before the wedding. I can only imagine the uproar if they found out about his religious beliefs a few months before the wedding. This would not be the time to drop a huge bombshell on my family considering how much give and take is already going on right now. I’m sure the OP probably feels the same way. If her father made a big deal about his daughter getting married in the family church and they didn’t want to hurt him during what should be a joyous time in their lives I can completely understand that. Now I am curious…would people be upset if they baptised their children with no intention of raising them in the church because their families thought it was important? Would that also be so disrespectful that it shouldn’t even be considered? ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-getting-married-in-catholic-church-need-help-with-readings/525665/49 "2010-01-20T20:09:04Z")
> [@pbbth](#): > > Now I am curious…would people be upset if they baptised their children with no intention of raising them in the church because their families thought it was important? Would that also be so disrespectful that it shouldn’t even be considered? I don’t think people would be upset at that because at least you’re getting the baby baptized. It’s for the baby, not the parents. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-getting-married-in-catholic-church-need-help-with-readings/525665/50 "2010-01-20T20:12:15Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > Where we differ is that I don’t see a wrong here. The OP has been confirmed-he really is Catholic, he just doesn’t believe. I don’t think he has any obligation to torpedo his wedding and relationship with his future in-laws to avoid telling a white lie to an institution with a decidedly chequered past and present. > > I would have no qualms about telling he same white lie to any religious institution. Family peace is the greater good than being 100% honest to some man-made institution that claims to have dibs on your soul. Family peace bought by lies and hypocrisy is pretty worthless. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-getting-married-in-catholic-church-need-help-with-readings/525665/51 "2010-01-20T20:20:40Z")
[Moderator Warning]_TWEET!_ Take the highly charged issue of non-believers marrying in a religious setting to Great Debates where it belongs. The OP is asking about appropriate readings for the ceremony.[/Moderator Warning] ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-getting-married-in-catholic-church-need-help-with-readings/525665/52 "2010-01-20T20:20:52Z")
> [@JHE1967](#): > > I have no problem with references to God. Just wanted something that read well and wasn’t too over the top with mentions of “his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down” and the ilk. Have you _ever_ been to or heard of a wedding where that verse was read? :dubious: On the other hand, the (Episcopal) Book of Common Prayer recommends any of the following readings: Genesis 1:26-28 (Male and female he created them) Genesis 2:4-9, 15-24 (A man cleaves to his wife and they become one flesh) Song of Solomon 2:10-13; 8:6-7 (Many waters cannot quench love) Tobit 8:5b-8 (New English Bible) (That she and I may grow old together) 1 Corinthians 13:1-13 (Love is patient and kind) Ephesians 3:14-19 (The Father from whom ever family is named) Ephesians 5:1-2, 21-33 (Walk in love, as Christ loved us) Colossians 3:12-17 (Love which binds everything together in harmony) 1 John 4:7-16 (Let us love one another for love is of God) And, additionally, one of the following Gospel readings: Matthew 5:1-10 (The Beatitudes) Matthew 5:13-16 (You are the light…Let your light so shine) Matthew 7:21,24-29 (Like a wise man who built his house upon the rock) Mark 10:6-9,13-16 (They are no longer two but one) John 15:9-12 (Love one another as I have loved you) ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-getting-married-in-catholic-church-need-help-with-readings/525665/53 "2010-01-20T20:22:38Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Family peace bought by lies and hypocrisy is pretty worthless. Wow. Again I am blown away by the judgmentalism in this thread. Umm, you do realize that what is hypocrisy to you, is not necessarily hypocrisy to everyone? I personally do not believe that churches (who are, in my opinion, all snake oil salesmen) havean claim on my honesty, particularly when they use emotional blackmail and family ties to manipulate people into staying in their church. You believe differently and that is your right. The difference is that I don’t make blanket condemnations of people and circumstances that I couldn’t possibly know. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-getting-married-in-catholic-church-need-help-with-readings/525665/54 "2010-01-20T20:33:01Z")
Am I tho only person who does ot see the “highly judgmental” “pile on” people are referring to? The OP posted regarding something that impressed me as an unusual personal choice, as well as something I did not think the catholic church would permit. Askin the OP why he and his fiance are making this decision, and how theor choice comports with church policy, does not impress me as a pile on. My wife and I - both atheists - got married in a lutheran church by her childhood minister, a guy she liked and respected. And it - like many churches - was a pretty place for the ceremony. And we thought it would score some points with believing family members. Looking back at it, we wish we had had a completely civil ceremony. But we made our choice, as the OP is certainly entitled to. During pre-marriage counselling the minister asked us what role religion would have in our lives and childrearing, and we responded “absolutely none.” Didn’t keep him from marrying us. But I question whether he should have. And having been raised RC I thought they were considerably more strict. ---
**Author:** ![Marienee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@Marienee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marienee)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-getting-married-in-catholic-church-need-help-with-readings/525665/55 "2010-01-20T20:37:16Z")
I am not sure what the fuss is about. They are both baptized in the Catholic faith, they are free to marry, they will freely exchange their consent, they have the intention to marry for life, to be faithful to one another and be open to children (or at least he has not said that they are not) and their consent will be given in the presence of two witnesses and before a properly authorized Church minister. That’s pretty much the list of requirements. Possibly some of you are under the misapprehension that belief in God is mandatory to be a Catholic. It is not. Several of the fathers of the church were atheists at various times, baptised atheists are regarded as, er, Catholics. Possibly Catholics with their souls in peril, but many of us are in that state. Now, he may be an apostate, in which case they cannot marry in the church, but I rather doubt he is, the requirements are such that he probably would have mentioned it. And also the priest from whom they had their counselling probably would have noticed – he would have to be dead, under ban, or excommunicated. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-getting-married-in-catholic-church-need-help-with-readings/525665/56 "2010-01-20T20:40:29Z")
[Modeerator Warning]All off-topic posts will be infractions.[/Moderator Warning] ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-getting-married-in-catholic-church-need-help-with-readings/525665/57 "2010-01-20T20:45:58Z")
Howsabout: \*JER 17:5 This is what the LORD says: "Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who depends on flesh for his strength and whose heart turns away from the LORD. 6 He will be like a bush in the wastelands; he will not see prosperity when it comes. He will dwell in the parched places of the desert, in a salt land where no one lives.\* 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-getting-married-in-catholic-church-need-help-with-readings/525665/58 "2010-01-20T20:47:04Z")
One of our readings was from Revelation - that made people sit up and listen: > [@](#): > > Revelation 19:1, 5-9 > > A reading from the book of Revelation > > I, John, heard what sounded like the loud song of a great assembly in heaven. They were singing: > “Alleluia! > Salvation, glory, and might belong to our God.” > > A voice coming from the throne cried out: “Praise our God, all you his servants, the small and the great, who revere him!” Then I heard what sounded like the shouts of a great crowd, or the roaring of the deep, or mighty peals of thunder, as they cried: > "Alleluia! > The Lord is king, > our God, the Almighty! > Let us rejoice and be glad, > and give him glory! > For this is the wedding day of the Lamb, > his bride has prepared herself for the wedding. > She has been given a dress to wear > made of finest linen, brilliant white.’ > (The linen dress is the virtuous deeds of God’s saints.) > > The angel then said to me: "Write this down: Happy are they who have been invited to the wedding feast of the Lamb. ---
**Author:** ![Marienee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@Marienee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marienee)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-getting-married-in-catholic-church-need-help-with-readings/525665/59 "2010-01-20T21:14:50Z")
Well, I like Proverbs, _There are three things too wonderful for me, nay, four things which I do not understand: The way of an eagle through the air, the way of a snake upon a rock, the way of a ship upon the sea and the way of a man with a maid…_ However, that would be rather a non traditional reading for a wedding… The Book of Ruth has a nice passage (Ruth 1: 16-17). In the story, Ruth is speaking to her mother in law, not her husband but it is often used at weddings to express the commitment in love: And [Ruth] answered: Be not against me, to desire that I should leave thee and depart: for whithersoever thou shalt go, I will go: and where thou shalt dwell, I also will dwell. Thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God. The land that shall receive thee dying, in the same will I die: and there will I be buried. The Lord do so and so to me, and add more also, if aught but death part me and thee.: ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-getting-married-in-catholic-church-need-help-with-readings/525665/60 "2010-01-20T21:30:10Z")
Sorry, **Czarcasm**! I either missed that there was a second page or you and all of these people on the second page posted while I was still in the initial post box. (Looking at timestamps, I obviously missed the 2nd page completely) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-getting-married-in-catholic-church-need-help-with-readings/525665.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-getting-married-in-catholic-church-need-help-with-readings/525665.md?page=4)