# Atheist or Other? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 12, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-or-other/599437 "2011-10-12T17:26:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-or-other/599437/41 "2011-10-12T21:43:20Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > P.J. O’Rourke? Author of _“How to Drive Fast on Drugs While Getting Your Wing-Wang Squeezed and Not Spill Your Drink”_? Your revivals must be amazing. Nope, I don’t believe he ever wrote a book with that title. Haha, cute try though. You do know he was a frequent National Public Radio contributor, right? I only mention that because I get the impression that you are young and hear “P.J. O’Rourke” and assume “old conservative fart.” Anyway, enough with the callow young thing. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > If I recall aright (which I’m sure I do, but I’m too lazy to provide a cite so I have to leave myself wiggle room), the word “Christian” literally means “Christ-like.” I believe that I should seek to be to behave, in my dealings with others, like Jesus of Nazareth. (I am pretending that “Christ” is a surname rather than a title meaning “Anointed,” because frankly that’s how most people use it.) > Batman’s a horrible role model. Spider-Man, particularly in the second movie, is a much better one. I have never heard that “Christian” means specifically “Christ-like” and not all that other bible-labeling stuff, but you could do worse as a hypothetical role model. But then anyone, biblically-Christian or not, Buddhist, Jewish, Muslim, atheist, Wiccan, who was a generally good person adhering to general “good person” principles could call themselves Christian aka “Christ-like” under your definition, right? Which is fine, but kinda dilutes the “Christian” label, no? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-or-other/599437/42 "2011-10-12T22:24:26Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > Nope, I don’t believe he ever wrote a book with that title. Haha, cute try though. > > You do know he was a frequent National Public Radio contributor, right? I only mention that because I get the impression that you are young and hear “P.J. O’Rourke” and assume “old conservative fart.” > > Anyway, enough with the callow young thing. I’m not young, and I remember him as a young conservative fart. But a much funnier conservative fart than he is now. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-or-other/599437/43 "2011-10-12T22:54:58Z")
The whole thing hinges on how you define “God”. I certainly don’t believe in the Christian God, or any other personal gods for that matter. But take naturalistic pantheists, for example. Are they atheists? When “God” becomes so abstract that it converges with the universe, does it lose its meaning? Anyway, as a naturalistic pantheist myself, I chose “other”. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-or-other/599437/44 "2011-10-12T23:52:48Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > I love reading these threads, because inevitably someone will label themselves agnostic, only to be told, “No, you’re an atheist.” Because it’s pretty much true. The only reason people lean towards “agnostic” over “atheist” isn’t one of a substantive difference between the positions, but rather they’re afraid to associate with the straw man that believers claim atheists are (“I know 100% for sure God doesn’t exist!”), and because you sound less scary to religious people in a social setting if you say agnostic. It’s a less aggressive way of saying the same thing, simply because atheist is a word that, by itself, gets the religious worked into a frenzy. I sort of do this myself, among my very religious family, when they ask me about their beliefs. I’m concerned that if I say atheist they’re going to give me the “why do you hate god?!?!” type stupid shit, so what I say instead is “I don’t believe in anything supernatural”, which is a much broader and less targetted way of rejecting their religion. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-or-other/599437/45 "2011-10-12T23:56:18Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I sometimes call myself an atheist, but a better description would be _Christian_ atheist. That is, I don’t believe in the supernatural, but I try to pattern my behavior on the model of Christ. So… you have a crucifixion fetish? Hot! 😉 I would say that, as an atheist, I model my own values on principles of hedonism, utilitarianism, and humanitarianism. Which respectively means that I’m an Epicurian Benthamian [Hume-an](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hume). It’s pronounced human! \>:[ I’m being more than a bit tongue-in-cheek with the last one, but I tried googling and couldn’t find anyone listed as the founder of humanitarianism, so I went for the cheap pun. nyah ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-or-other/599437/46 "2011-10-13T00:13:19Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I’m not young, and I remember him as a young conservative fart. But a much funnier conservative fart than he is now. No kidding. I probably see him more often on Bill Maher than anywhere else, and I have to wonder if he’s an alcoholic. And if he is, he’s not a funny one. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-or-other/599437/47 "2011-10-13T00:44:24Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > Nope, I don’t believe he ever wrote a book with that title. Haha, cute try though. > > You do know he was a frequent National Public Radio contributor, right? I only mention that because I get the impression that you are young and hear “P.J. O’Rourke” and assume “old conservative fart.” > > Anyway, enough with the callow young thing. It was an article, not a book. I recall reading it in when it first came out in 1979 in National Lampoon. [According to Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.J._O%27Roarke) it was included in _Republican Party Reptile_ and _Driving Like Crazy_ for you youngsters. Callow young thing indeed. I think you have me confused with someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-or-other/599437/48 "2011-10-13T00:51:12Z")
Ah! [Someone put it online](http://www.heretical.com/miscella/reptile.html). Still sounds like a source of scripture-like guidance to me, especially "Most people like to drive on speed or cocaine with plenty of whiskey mixed in. This gives you the confidence you want and need for plowing through red lights and passing trucks on the right. But don’t neglect downs and 'ludes and codeine cough syrup either. It’s hard to beat the heavy depressants for high-speed spin-outs, backing into trees, and a general feeling of not giving two fucks about man and his universe. " ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-or-other/599437/49 "2011-10-13T01:12:29Z")
If you asked me what my religion is I would say Buddhist. But I am also an atheist. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-or-other/599437/50 "2011-10-13T01:16:31Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > If you asked me what my religion is I would say Buddhist. But I am also an atheist. Still counts. ---
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-or-other/599437/51 "2011-10-13T03:33:42Z")
I’m a proud [del]baby-eater[/del] atheist. > [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > I love reading these threads, because inevitably someone will label themselves agnostic, only to be told, “No, you’re an atheist.” Well, it would help if people would stop claiming that atheism means the belief that gods don’t exist. However, I prefer to ask them which gods they believe in rather than telling them that they don’t believe in any. Of course, if the answer is “none of them” then that’s pretty much the definition of atheism anyway. ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-or-other/599437/52 "2011-10-13T09:40:13Z")
I got into atheism so I could finally eat babies without those annoying moral repercussions. ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Cumberdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumberdale)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-or-other/599437/53 "2011-10-13T12:49:25Z")
Atheist. I used to call myself agnostic because atheist sounded harsh and negative. However, I am of the opinion now that the term agnostic is used so we don’t sound so bad to believers. Since I no longer care what believers think I proudly say I am an atheist. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-or-other/599437/54 "2011-10-13T15:16:36Z")
> [@akennett](#): > > Well, it would help if people would stop claiming that atheism means the belief that gods don’t exist. OK, then what am I missing here? What does it mean? I do not believe in God. I am an atheist. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-or-other/599437/55 "2011-10-13T15:45:51Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Because it’s pretty much true. The only reason people lean towards “agnostic” over “atheist” isn’t one of a substantive difference between the positions, but rather they’re afraid to associate with the straw man that believers claim atheists are (“I know 100% for sure God doesn’t exist!”), and because you sound less scary to religious people in a social setting if you say agnostic. It’s a less aggressive way of saying the same thing, simply because atheist is a word that, by itself, gets the religious worked into a frenzy. Is that really the only reason? Isn’t it possible that someone has done some soul searching and decided that agnostic is just the term for them? ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-or-other/599437/56 "2011-10-13T16:20:59Z")
There are a lot of reasons someone could call themselves agnostic. Some agnostics fall under Dawkins [7 point scale](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_of_theistic_probability) as a number 6. Even Dawkins himself is a 6. So those people I consider atheists. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-or-other/599437/57 "2011-10-13T16:28:44Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > Is that really the only reason? Isn’t it possible that someone has done some soul searching and decided that agnostic is just the term for them? The trouble with this is that if you say you are agnostic, you still haven’t really answered the question as to whether you believe God exists or not. You could be a fideist; that is to say (essentially) an agnostic theist. You could say, you know what, I don’t know whether God exists or not, but I’m going to believe God does anyway. You could also be an agnostic atheist and say that you don’t know whether God exists or not, and not believe in God. Then again, I no longer care what someone claims they are - generally it tells me very little about their beliefs anyway so there are follow up questions. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-or-other/599437/58 "2011-10-13T17:19:17Z")
Community: [“Agnostic - Lazy Man’s Atheist”](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL0ovEPbox8) ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-or-other/599437/59 "2011-10-13T18:32:20Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > Is that really the only reason? Isn’t it possible that someone has done some soul searching and decided that agnostic is just the term for them? What’s the meaningful decision they’re trying to convey? Agnostics as I understand it believe that it isn’t within the human capability to be able to ascertain or understand the nature of god/gods, and so we have no knowledge of them. The rational conclusion of that position is not to believe in any particular god or gods, because you can’t know about them even if they existed. And not believing in any particular god or gods is the exact definition of atheism. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-or-other/599437/60 "2011-10-13T19:08:16Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > What’s the meaningful decision they’re trying to convey? > > Agnostics as I understand it believe that it isn’t within the human capability to be able to ascertain or understand the nature of god/gods, and so we have no knowledge of them. The rational conclusion of that position is not to believe in any particular god or gods, because you can’t know about them even if they existed. And not believing in any particular god or gods is the exact definition of atheism. Yes but there’s a difference in saying “I don’t personally believe in deities” and saying “I know without a shred of doubt that deities don’t exist because there’s irrefutable proof.” I’m not that smart. There might, in fact, be a god or gods out there and I just don’t know it. I’m between 5 and 6 on Dawkin’s scale. Call me an atheist if you want, but I’m going to keep calling myself an agnostic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-or-other/599437.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-or-other/599437.md?page=4)