# Atheist zealots annoy me to no end. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 22, 2008, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-zealots-annoy-me-to-no-end/438670 "2008-02-22T02:43:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-zealots-annoy-me-to-no-end/438670/261 "2008-02-27T11:36:22Z")
[QUOTE=MissTskTsk] Nothing more than I met him and a couple of others from the group (who were interesting folks) through my sister who is a professor at a Portland area university. It was a faculty event. [/QUOTE] You are not getting away with this. I’d like a cite(that would be a link) to this group’s website, or a mention of this group from another source. Which Portland University they appear at? For bonus points, try to guess what city I am posting from, and what groups I happen to be affiliated with? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-zealots-annoy-me-to-no-end/438670/262 "2008-02-27T11:42:04Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Wrong. Quite a few people were for the war. Destroying an army of conquest and occupation isn’t murder. Trying to compare killing people simply for what they believe, and killing them for being guilty of engaging in or helping others engage in mass murder and conquest doesn’t work. Or are you going to claim that people who shot at the invading Germans in WW II were “zealots” as well ? [/QUOTE] Oh bullshit. None of the soldiers on the ground made the choice to continue the Iraqi war. Thanks for wishing for the death of friends and family, asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-zealots-annoy-me-to-no-end/438670/263 "2008-02-27T11:50:32Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] Oh bullshit. None of the soldiers on the ground made the choice to continue the Iraqi war. Thanks for wishing for the death of friends and family, asshole. [/QUOTE] I’m afraid that every soldier on the ground makes the choice to continue war. That’s what war is-one group of soldiers fighting another. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-zealots-annoy-me-to-no-end/438670/264 "2008-02-27T11:54:46Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] I’m afraid that every soldier on the ground makes the choice to continue war. That’s what war is-one group of soldiers fighting another. [/QUOTE] I’m talking about the higher ups making the decisions-you honestly think the average ground soldier decides these things. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-zealots-annoy-me-to-no-end/438670/265 "2008-02-27T12:07:45Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] I’m talking about the higher ups making the decisions-you honestly think the average ground soldier decides these things. [/QUOTE] The average ground soldier makes the decision to become a ground soldier. He knows what being a ground soldier encompasses. He knows what he is told to do. He knows what the consequences are for refusing to obey orders, and he weighs them against the direct consequences of his obeying them. Then he decides. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-zealots-annoy-me-to-no-end/438670/266 "2008-02-27T14:27:50Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] Oh bullshit. None of the soldiers on the ground made the choice to continue the Iraqi war. [/quote] Are they Borg ? If not, then yes, they made a choice. And while there are consequences to saying “no, I refuse that order” or deserting, those consequences are less than those they inflict on their victims. And how many of them voted for Bush ? How many joined after the war started ? [QUOTE=Guinastasia] Thanks for wishing for the death of friends and family, asshole. [/QUOTE] Why should I care about the friends and families of such people ? Do they care about the friends and families of the people they kill or help to kill ? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-zealots-annoy-me-to-no-end/438670/267 "2008-02-27T15:09:43Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] That’s nice, but you still have to admit that there are many times more religious zealots than non-religious zealots… [/quote] Only because there are more religious people than there are non-religious people. > [@](#): > > _…and that the religious zealots are much more organized._ What does this have to do with how annoying the non-religious zealots are? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-zealots-annoy-me-to-no-end/438670/268 "2008-02-27T15:31:16Z")
[QUOTE=Lord Ashtar] What does this have to do with how annoying the non-religious zealots are? [/QUOTE] Because organization affects how successful they are at being annoying, or dangerous. A lone zealot yells at people, or burns a rival church, or shoots a few individuals. Organized zealots get passed oppressive or ridiculous laws, slaughter villages full of unbelievers/heretics/infidels/whatever, or pilot planes into skyscrapers. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-zealots-annoy-me-to-no-end/438670/269 "2008-02-27T15:51:47Z")
[QUOTE=Triskadecamus] Much like politics. Tris [/QUOTE] But Politics are necessary. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-zealots-annoy-me-to-no-end/438670/270 "2008-02-27T16:24:54Z")
[QUOTE=Jragon] Personally I think you’re just noticing the ones that do more. There are certainly plenty of religious folk (hell I’m friends with **six** mormons and not one has tried to convert me) that don’t bring it up in casual conversation, if ever at all. And here’s a good article: [http://www.cracked.com/article\_15759\_10-things-christians-atheists-can-must-agree-on.html](http://www.cracked.com/article_15759_10-things-christians-atheists-can-must-agree-on.html) Comedy site? Yes. Good points? yes. Do i agree with all of it? Not particularily. Mainly my gripe is with the first one, which I clarified my stance on in my above post (you’re not going to see war-criminal atheists but you will see for example the Soviets having it as part of their agenda, and I thought of that before I read this article so don’t call me a copycat). [/QUOTE] Reading through the thread I wanted to mention that this is a great article. Thanks for the link. I’ve spent some hours on this board talking about and thinking about the things he expresses. There are a lot of areas where believers from different belief systems and non believers experience things in a similar way and operate in a similar way. We tend to let labels and terminology create chasms between us where with a closer and more nuanced look, we’d see those similarities. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-zealots-annoy-me-to-no-end/438670/271 "2008-02-27T16:36:34Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Because organization affects how successful they are at being annoying, or dangerous. A lone zealot yells at people, or burns a rival church, or shoots a few individuals. Organized zealots get passed oppressive or ridiculous laws, slaughter villages full of unbelievers/heretics/infidels/whatever, or pilot planes into skyscrapers. [/QUOTE] Atheist zealots are still annoying. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-zealots-annoy-me-to-no-end/438670/272 "2008-02-27T17:09:20Z")
[QUOTE=Lord Ashtar] Atheist zealots are still annoying. [/QUOTE] All things being equal…they ain’t. There are so few atheist zealots out there that you actually have to look for them(or follow **MissTskTsk’s** lead and just make them up), whereas you can find mention of organized groups of religious zealots of every religious persuasion in the news almost every day. It’s like saying that 1=1000 because they are both numbers. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-zealots-annoy-me-to-no-end/438670/273 "2008-02-27T17:45:25Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Why, exactly, are sky gods less ridiculous than the FSG or Bertrand Russel’s Celestial Teapot? [/QUOTE] IMO the reason such comparisons fail is purpose. The IPU, FSM etc. etc. are not linked to anything meaningful within human emotion and psychology. God belief , and/or other religious beliefs are connected to humanities sense of purpose, belonging, love, right and wrong, justice, and so on. These are real and important facets of our humanity. Certainly religion is infused with superstition and religious myth and for some the myth may be more important than loving their fellow man, but I think it’s impossible to separate believers into groups that value myth more, or true service and purpose more. There are too many levels of nuance for that. Can we talk of love and justice and other ideals without speaking of religious beliefs? Of course, and I hope that believers and non believers could find that common ground. To that end the teapot and similar arguments serve no purpose and ultimately have no realistic comparison to god belief. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-zealots-annoy-me-to-no-end/438670/274 "2008-02-27T17:59:49Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] All things being equal…they ain’t. There are so few atheist zealots out there that you actually have to look for them(or follow **MissTskTsk’s** lead and just make them up), whereas you can find mention of organized groups of religious zealots of every religious persuasion in the news almost every day. It’s like saying that 1=1000 because they are both numbers. [/QUOTE] So you’re saying that atheist zealots are not annoying because they are outnumbered by religious zealots? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-zealots-annoy-me-to-no-end/438670/275 "2008-02-27T18:00:57Z")
[QUOTE=cosmosdan] IMO the reason such comparisons fail is purpose. The IPU, FSM etc. etc. are not linked to anything meaningful within human emotion and psychology. God belief , and/or other religious beliefs are connected to humanities sense of purpose, belonging, love, right and wrong, justice, and so on. These are real and important facets of our humanity. Certainly religion is infused with superstition and religious myth and for some the myth may be more important than loving their fellow man, but I think it’s impossible to separate believers into groups that value myth more, or true service and purpose more. There are too many levels of nuance for that. [/quote] This is all little more than special pleading and does not actually explain why belief in Yahweh, the son of the Canaanite El is a more reasonable thing to literally believe _exists_ than the IPU. Emotional connections are not arguments for existence. They’re also not exclusive to the Abrahamic God. People have had (and continue to have) equally emotional connections to Krishna, Rama, Kokopeli. Earth Mother goddesses, Zeus, Odin, Ancestral spirits, animals and trees. Most western theists have no problem with rejecting any of those things out of hand as ridiculous. > [@](#): > > Can we talk of love and justice and other ideals without speaking of religious beliefs? Of course, and I hope that believers and non believers could find that common ground. To that end the teapot and similar arguments serve no purpose and ultimately have no realistic comparison to god belief. But emotional connections and appeals to personal morality have no reference to the conversation. The assertion that god exists is not empirically different from the assertion that the IPU exists. Values and emotion are irrelevant to the comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-zealots-annoy-me-to-no-end/438670/276 "2008-02-27T18:16:58Z")
[QUOTE=Lord Ashtar] So you’re saying that atheist zealots are not annoying because they are outnumbered by religious zealots? [/QUOTE] No, I’m saying that claiming atheist zealots are annoying, then backtracking and saying that _all_ zealots are of course equally annoying, is disingenuous at best. Millions of things can be classified as “annoying”, but atheist zealots are so damn rare that I find it difficult to believe that they are a constant annoyance to _anybody_. It’s like bitching about stubbing your toe while you are running away from a madman with an ax. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-zealots-annoy-me-to-no-end/438670/277 "2008-02-27T18:46:51Z")
[QUOTE=Lobohan] If you tell me the moon is composed of fairy shit I’ll call you a moron until I see some proof. If you tell me there is an invisible dude ready to torture me forever because I don’t telepathically kowtow to him nightly I’ll call you a spectacular fucking moron until I see some proof. [/QUOTE] Thats a very specific belief in which someone decides they know their deity’s attitude toward you. I have a problem with that as well. That certainly doesn’t include all believers. > [@](#): > > Believing absurd things with no proof is stupid. And **people should look down on those who do**. bolding mine That’s an interesting way of putting it. Has you entertained that idea that perhaps you just revealed a non religious spectacular moron? Can you think of any examples where people believed something most people thought was absurd ,and with no proof, only to be shown correct later on? Can you think of examples of every day common human interaction where we accept things as true without proof? > [@](#): > > So I’d also like to point out that I don’t consider myself a zealot, because I’d never hurt anyone who wants to believe in god. I would hire them if they could do the job and wouldn’t deny them housing or opportunities. I simply don’t smile and pretend like the ludicrous idea of theism is a fair choice. It’s a childish choice and I find those that choose it unworthy of respect. I know perfectly nice religious people and I’m friends with at least two, but I certainly don’t respect their intellectual integrity or reason. I’m not sure what an atheist zealot might be so I won’t accuse anyone of that. On this particular subject you seem pretty opinionated. Fine. Mine is that you’re confused about what intellectual integrity and reason really are and you just can’t see it. IMO intellectual integrity and reason allows us to see the nuances and subtleties in an argument like this. From the nature of your posts in this thread they seem to escape you. Am I wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-zealots-annoy-me-to-no-end/438670/278 "2008-02-27T19:06:13Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] No, I’m saying that claiming atheist zealots are annoying, then backtracking and saying that _all_ zealots are of course equally annoying, is disingenuous at best. Millions of things can be classified as “annoying”, but atheist zealots are so damn rare that I find it difficult to believe that they are a constant annoyance to _anybody_. It’s like bitching about stubbing your toe while you are running away from a madman with an ax. [/QUOTE] This does not address my question in the slightest. Why are you so threatened by the idea that there exist people who find atheistic zealots annoying? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-zealots-annoy-me-to-no-end/438670/279 "2008-02-27T19:12:36Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] And how many of them voted for Bush ? How many joined after the war started ? [/QUOTE] Are you now trying to tell me that voting for Bush is somehow deserving of death? Are you saying that no one, ever, any time, should join the military? As for the topic at hand-let’s face it, it’s not religion, or lack of. It’s _humanity_. Humanity is scum. Human beings, no matter their beliefs, are assholes. In the past, the Crusades, colonialism, the exploitation and atrocities in Africa and Latin America, etc, were fueled equally by greed and racism-religion often being the excuse. “Saving the savages” took a backseat to stealing their resources, making them slaves, treating them like animals. And if or if it hadn’t been religion, it would be something else: I said it before-Humanity sucks. Humans, by and large, are evil. We’re all assholes-you’re an asshole, I’m an asshole, every individual in the world is an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-zealots-annoy-me-to-no-end/438670/280 "2008-02-27T19:33:11Z")
[QUOTE=Lord Ashtar] This does not address my question in the slightest. Why are you so threatened by the idea that there exist people who find atheistic zealots annoying? [/QUOTE] Threatened? No more threatened than the OP and you are by atheist zealots in the first place. I am merely disagreeing that they are so common as to merit special attention. They don’t leave booklets in phone booths and on bus seats. Despite spurious claims to the contrary, they don’t follow people around trying to convert them. They don’t hold rallies in public squares. They don’t spend millions trying to legislate the morality of others. What do they do? On a message board dedicated to finding out what’s what, a board so dedicated to getting to the facts of the matter that the one word response of “Cite?” is common, they refuse to give one aspect of the supernatural a buy-religion. Even on this board there a so few people you would classify as “atheist zealots” you could probably name them from memory. This is why I question the supposed “annoyance” of atheist zealots. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-zealots-annoy-me-to-no-end/438670.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheist-zealots-annoy-me-to-no-end/438670.md?page=15)