# Atheists and agnostics: do you wish there was a god? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 20, 2005, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-agnostics-do-you-wish-there-was-a-god/331888 "2005-11-20T05:51:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-agnostics-do-you-wish-there-was-a-god/331888/61 "2005-11-21T13:30:37Z")
Just out of interest, would people add their sex? I’m male. I was just wondering whether there were more male or female atheists. Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![Fromage\_A\_Trois](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fromage\_A\_Trois](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fromage_A_Trois)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-agnostics-do-you-wish-there-was-a-god/331888/62 "2005-11-21T14:02:42Z")
> [@Ice Wolf](#): > > Cheers, **soulmurk**. And I hesitated over my spelling of synonym too. Dratted thing. 🙂 Well, why didn’t you just use another word that meant the same thing? \ I crack myself up. I’m not sure whether I’m agnostic or atheist. I can’t prove that there isn’t a God, but I would like to. I would like to _know_ that there is no God, it would be much more satisfying (to me) than knowing that there is one (or many). Explanations of the Universe that require a God are deeply unsatisfying. However, I do hope things happen. I don’t pray, or wish for God or some other being to change the Universe, I just _hope_ that I am in the parallel universe where my lottery numbers come up, or whatever. I also want there to be an afterlife - but not the Christian Heaven / Hell, or anything in particular. I would like there to be some kind of existence, nothing to do with a God, where we can all have a good time for eternity! ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-agnostics-do-you-wish-there-was-a-god/331888/63 "2005-11-21T17:41:50Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > I wish there was something after death, I wish there was really such thing as Karma, I wish the answers were just as simple as “god intended it that way”. Living longer might be nice. I’m not a high-on-life type of person, so I guess I don’t see the thrill of being me for an eternity. As far as I’m concerned, having a god just removes all your basic problems one step and solves nothing fundamental. “Because god intended it” is no better than “shit happens,” because all the questions of “why?” haven’t been obviated: where did god come from? Why is she the arbiter of good & evil? Why is god here? What gives god purpose? Then there are a lot of other questions as well. Such as, if god is so loving and divine, why is it that our only instruction manuals are so crappily written? Why does an omniscient, omnipotent god stop by to give pointers and advice. Now _that_ would be a morale booster. OTOH, if it’s just a diestic sort of god, who cares if she exists? She ain’t doing me any good. So, no. I can’t say that I wish for a god to exist. ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-agnostics-do-you-wish-there-was-a-god/331888/64 "2005-11-21T17:44:57Z")
Oops, should have been: > [@js\_africanus](#): > > Why does an omniscient, omnipotent god **not** stop by to give pointers and advice. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-agnostics-do-you-wish-there-was-a-god/331888/65 "2005-11-21T18:37:38Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Then why bother? I mean, if there’s no payoff in believing…if when you ask for something and god gives you the stink-eye, what would make you continue to ask for favors? Are you looking for a “Father” or a “Sugar Daddy”? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-agnostics-do-you-wish-there-was-a-god/331888/66 "2005-11-21T19:09:31Z")
> [@Fromage A Trois](#): > > I’m not sure whether I’m agnostic or atheist. I can’t prove that there isn’t a God, but I would like to. I would like to _know_ that there is no God, it would be much more satisfying (to me) than knowing that there is one (or many). Explanations of the Universe that require a God are deeply unsatisfying. No one can prove there is no god of any type, and no one can know there is no god. An atheist lacks belief in any god, and might believe there are no gods. And there have been an excessive number of GD threads on this subject. Sometimes I’d like there to be a deity to aim lightning bolts at a certain white building in Washington DC, while a loud :wally resounds from the sky. On the whole, however, I’m just as happy we’re responsible for our own destiny. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-agnostics-do-you-wish-there-was-a-god/331888/67 "2005-11-21T19:12:51Z")
> [@C3](#): > > Yeah, see the thing is, I wish there was an organized thing I could go to on Sunday mornings where we didn’t talk about spirituality or religion or anything like that. All I would want out of it is the singing, snacks, and some good conversation. Maybe some arts & crafts thing for the kids. All the social aspects of church without any of the god/philosophy parts. You wouldn’t have to be an atheist to join, I would just think the religious people (at least those who worship on Sunday mornings) would have something else to do. I don’t mind the occasional sleep-in on Sunday, but it would be nice to have something like that to look forward to every week. I got married in an Ethical Culture Society hall, with a leader, and it was a very excellent ceremony, with no mention of God but more ritual than a justice of the peace would have. None are near me now, I might go if there were - though I kind of worship the NY Times on Sunday, so I might never make it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-agnostics-do-you-wish-there-was-a-god/331888/68 "2005-11-21T19:14:59Z")
> [@Enola Straight](#): > > Are you looking for a “Father” or a “Sugar Daddy”? A sugar daddy, duh. I already have a father, I don’t need another one. This is exactly the kind of non-answer to questions of faith that I find infuriating. It attempts to turn the problem around on the skeptic. Like there’s something inherently selfish about merely asking for an incentive to worship. I completely disagree with that. I don’t feel that I owe God anything automatically. What’s he going to do for me? If God is a “father” he’s an absentee one, and a deadbeat to boot. ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-agnostics-do-you-wish-there-was-a-god/331888/69 "2005-11-21T19:27:01Z")
> [@Enola Straight](#): > > Are you looking for a “Father” or a “Sugar Daddy”? You father dumped you into the world with no help or assistance and won’t even respond to your requests, let alone grant them? ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-agnostics-do-you-wish-there-was-a-god/331888/70 "2005-11-21T19:52:43Z")
A lot of fathers are like that. MY dad was. ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-agnostics-do-you-wish-there-was-a-god/331888/71 "2005-11-21T20:07:19Z")
> [@Enola Straight](#): > > A lot of fathers are like that. > > MY dad was. I’m sorry to hear that. I wish it had been otherwise. It nevertheless remains that you were using a fallacy, I trust it was not intentional. There are a lot more possibilities than father and sugardaddy ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-agnostics-do-you-wish-there-was-a-god/331888/72 "2005-11-21T20:36:10Z")
I am an atheist. There a very few things in this universe that I whole-heartedly approve of, but the absense of a god is one of those things. Indeed, I’m amazed that anyone could want a god, or be pleased by the fact that they believe in one. (To be clear: there are many possible definitions of god. In this post I refer to a god as a being who meets two conditions. First, a god is all-seeing and all-knowing and all-powerful. Second, a god justly rewards and punishes all human beings based on their good and bad deeds.) My reason for not wanting a god is straightforward. I have done more bad things in life than good things. If I were to be punished for my bad deeds during my lifetime, that would make for a pretty horrible lifetime. If I were to be punished in the afterlife for those things, it would make for a pretty horrible afterlife. And most people on this planet do even more bad things than I do, so their punishments would be even worse. Think about all the bad things you’ve done in life: insulting and fighting with other children about trivial stuff, breaking your parents’ rules, lying to authority figures, cheating on middle school math tests, smoking behind the gym, posting nasty comments on message boards just because they made you feel good, violating traffic laws, failing to donate to charity, and countless others. Do you _really_ want to get your just desserts for all of these sins? I sure don’t. I think anyone who wants a god must be in denial about the relative amounts of sin and virtue in their life. (Possibly excepting Mother Teresa and a handful of others.) I am quite thankful for the absense of god. ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-agnostics-do-you-wish-there-was-a-god/331888/73 "2005-11-21T21:13:52Z")
> [@soulmurk](#): > > An agnostic is someone who believes that the existence or non-existence of a higher power is unknowable; that it couldn’t be proven either way. I have always seen two distinct interpretations of “agnostic”, and I’ve never known which one is technically correct. 1. An agnostic is someone who believes that the existence or non-existence of a higher power is unknowable; that it is logically impossible to prove or disprove the existance of a higher power 2. An agnostic is someone who, based on their own experiences, does not think there is enough evidence to say there is or there isn’t a higher power. They would be open to the possibility that it may be provable one way or the other in the future, but as of right now feels that anyone who claims to know one way or the other is incorrect. The later one seems more scientific to me. The former is a belief system into itself. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-agnostics-do-you-wish-there-was-a-god/331888/74 "2005-11-21T21:19:47Z")
> [@elfbabe](#): > > If there were some benevolent force making sure that people who weren’t sorry for the bad things they did in life became _really sorry_ after they died This is as close as I come to the sentiment described in the OP. There are a lot of horrible people who behave selfishly and increase suffering in the world without any impact on their consciences, and then die peacefully in their beds. It would be satisfying to know of some sort of balancing system in the afterlife by which these people’s cruelties could be visited back upon them. Except, of course, that we _supposedly_ have exactly that, and it doesn’t seem to make a lot of difference now. People go on being stupid and cruel despite the “cost.” And I couldn’t see how practically it would work, anyway. As far as an actual god or God, as such, no, I don’t really ever have that wish. The cosmos is amazing enough and hard enough to understand without it. Don’t need layering on some By-Definition-Incomprehensible deity to boot. ---
**Author:** ![Schuyler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/54ee81/32.png) [@Schuyler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schuyler)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-agnostics-do-you-wish-there-was-a-god/331888/75 "2005-11-22T05:13:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m not comfortable with the thought of an ultra-powerful intelligent being that can control my fate and cannot be overcome. You aren’t married? (I kid, I kid) As for me, I’m totally OK with my current world-view, which doesn’t include anything supernatural - no god, God, spirits, etc. I do think we fail as humans to the extent that we can’t make the world more just than it is - evil people surely do exist, and they should be rooted out. Also, I recognize that there is tragedy in the human condition - I wonder if my lack of desire for the supernatural or for a god would survive the test of something bad happening to one of my children (knock on wood that it doesn’t happen). (BTW, I’m not above utilizing the concept of karma to analyze my behavior and reactions. Of course, I don’t believe in a karma that is separate from my own mental processes.) As an aside - I wanted to post a link somewhere to NPR’s “[This I Believe](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5015557)” segment, today with Penn Gillette. He writes, in part: > [@](#): > > I’m saying, “This I believe: I believe there is no God.” > > Having taken that step, it informs every moment of my life. I’m not greedy. I have love, blue skies, rainbows and Hallmark cards, and that has to be enough. It has to be enough, but it’s everything in the world and everything in the world is plenty for me. It seems just rude to beg the invisible for more. Just the love of my family that raised me and the family I’m raising now is enough that I don’t need heaven. IMHO it’s worth a read, or a listen. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-agnostics-do-you-wish-there-was-a-god/331888/76 "2005-11-22T05:56:23Z")
> [@js\_africanus](#): > > I’m sorry to hear that. I wish it had been otherwise. > > It nevertheless remains that you were using a fallacy, I trust it was not intentional. There are a lot more possibilities than father and sugardaddy I still loved him…unconditionally. ---
**Author:** ![soulmurk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@soulmurk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/soulmurk)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-agnostics-do-you-wish-there-was-a-god/331888/77 "2005-11-22T06:02:54Z")
> [@Driver8](#): > > I have always seen two distinct interpretations of “agnostic”, and I’ve never known which one is technically correct. > > 1. An agnostic is someone who believes that the existence or non-existence of a higher power is unknowable; that it is logically impossible to prove or disprove the existance of a higher power > 2. An agnostic is someone who, based on their own experiences, does not think there is enough evidence to say there is or there isn’t a higher power. They would be open to the possibility that it may be provable one way or the other in the future, but as of right now feels that anyone who claims to know one way or the other is incorrect. > > The later one seems more scientific to me. The former is a belief system into itself. Nah, definition two is just a skeptic 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-agnostics-do-you-wish-there-was-a-god/331888/78 "2005-11-22T13:29:51Z")
> [@ITR champion](#): > > I am an atheist. There a very few things in this universe that I whole-heartedly approve of, but the absense of a god is one of those things. Indeed, I’m amazed that anyone could want a god, or be pleased by the fact that they believe in one. > > (To be clear: there are many possible definitions of god. In this post I refer to a god as a being who meets two conditions. First, a god is all-seeing and all-knowing and all-powerful. Second, a god justly rewards and punishes all human beings based on their good and bad deeds.) > > My reason for not wanting a god is straightforward. I have done more bad things in life than good things. If I were to be punished for my bad deeds during my lifetime, that would make for a pretty horrible lifetime. If I were to be punished in the afterlife for those things, it would make for a pretty horrible afterlife. And most people on this planet do even more bad things than I do, so their punishments would be even worse. > > Think about all the bad things you’ve done in life: insulting and fighting with other children about trivial stuff, breaking your parents’ rules, lying to authority figures, cheating on middle school math tests, smoking behind the gym, posting nasty comments on message boards just because they made you feel good, violating traffic laws, failing to donate to charity, and countless others. Do you _really_ want to get your just desserts for all of these sins? I sure don’t. I think anyone who wants a god must be in denial about the relative amounts of sin and virtue in their life. (Possibly excepting Mother Teresa and a handful of others.) I am quite thankful for the absense of god. Well, if ever you get around to wishing there was a god, you’d better wish there was a Jesus as well. I doubt you’ll find a Christian on these boards who’ll put his or her hands up and say s/he would be confident at meeting God if the outcome were dependent on his/her own merits. 🙂 _Urendi Maleldil_ ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-agnostics-do-you-wish-there-was-a-god/331888/79 "2005-11-22T16:14:27Z")
> [@Testy](#): > > The religious are dangerous enough in their delusions, if they had something real backing them up they’d kill even more people than they already do. But they _are_ sure “something real [is] backing them up”. They don’t need any more reassurance. It’s as bad as it gets. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-agnostics-do-you-wish-there-was-a-god/331888.md?page=3)