# Atheists and climate change **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 8, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-climate-change/608843 "2012-01-08T20:15:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-climate-change/608843/101 "2012-02-12T19:06:23Z")
> [@Brighter](#): > > Aww yeah, sure, bye-bye. See ya in the future. Meh, as I always point out that I post not to convince people like you that already have the answers, I post to inform others of that the experts do say on the matter. > **[What is climate change?](https://weather.metoffice.gov.uk/climate-change/what-is-climate-change)** > > Climate change refers to a large-scale, long-term shift in the planet's weather patterns and average temperatures. [http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate-change/guide/what-is-it](http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate-change/guide/what-is-it) ---
**Author:** ![Brighter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ce73a5/32.png) [@Brighter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brighter)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-climate-change/608843/102 "2012-02-12T19:23:29Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Meh, as I always point out that I post not to convince people like you that already have the answers, I post to inform others of that the experts do say on the matter. 😃 bye-bye 😃 …or can I somehow further assist you(?) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-climate-change/608843/103 "2012-02-12T19:35:57Z")
> [@Brighter](#): > > 😃 > bye-bye > 😃 > > …or can I somehow further assist you(?) > 😃 Well, you are useful as a warning to others, that is helpful alright. 🙂 > **[Evidence - NASA Science](https://science.nasa.gov/climate-change/evidence/)** > > Earth's climate has changed throughout history. Just in the last 800,000 years, there have been eight cycles of ice ages and warmer periods, with the end of > [@](#): > > Even though the 2000s witnessed a solar output decline resulting in an unusually deep solar minimum in 2007-2009, surface temperatures continue to increase. 7 ---
**Author:** ![Brighter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ce73a5/32.png) [@Brighter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brighter)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-climate-change/608843/104 "2012-02-12T19:56:58Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Well, you are useful as a warning to others, that is helpful alright. 🙂 Awww, since I ‘already have the answers’ I must warn people like me that already have the answers: GIGObuster, do you know what’s the difference between ‘Great Debates’ and ‘Posting To Inform Others’? The difference is: you are now in ‘Great Debates’ zone. Ta Dam! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-climate-change/608843/105 "2012-02-12T20:01:29Z")
> [@Brighter](#): > > Awww, since I ‘already have the answers’ I must warn people like me that already have the answers: > > GIGObuster, do you know what’s the difference between ‘Great Debates’ and ‘Posting To Inform Others’? > > The difference is: you are now in ‘Great Debates’ zone. > > Ta Dam! You said that you were leaving, so “Ta Dam!” back at you, and if you are not, then please deal with the cites. Saying just “Bye Bye” demonstrates to others that your intention is not to debate at all. ---
**Author:** ![Brighter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ce73a5/32.png) [@Brighter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brighter)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-climate-change/608843/106 "2012-02-12T20:38:39Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > You said that you were leaving, so “Ta Dam!” back at you, and if you are not, then please deal with the cites. Saying just “Bye Bye” demonstrates to others that your intention is not to debate at all. Nah, I’m not not debating, but I suspect we might be flaming. And that is something I wish not to do! About the cites which I haven’t read: is your property at risk to be flooded? Solution: insure your property as fast as you can, it might not be possible in the future. 🆒 hello, Ta Dam was 2u only! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-climate-change/608843/107 "2012-02-12T21:13:33Z")
> [@Brighter](#): > > Nah, I’m not not debating, but I suspect we might be flaming. And that is something I wish not to do! > > About the cites which I haven’t read: is your property at risk to be flooded? > Solution: insure your property as fast as you can, it might not be possible in the future. > 🆒 > > hello, Ta Dam was 2u only! Well, at least he is more fun than others that avoid the evidence… [http://www.geo.arizona.edu/dgesl/publications/abstracts/weiss\_et\_al&implications&2011.htm](http://www.geo.arizona.edu/dgesl/publications/abstracts/weiss_et_al&implications&2011.htm) > [@](#): > > Recently published work estimates that global sea level rise (SLR) approaching or exceeding 1 m by 2100 is plausible, thus significantly updating projections by the Fourth Assessment of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. Furthermore, global greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions over the 21st century will not only influence SLR in the next ~90 years, but will also commit Earth to several meters of additional SLR over subsequent centuries. As I’m in Arizona I do not need to worry, but several descendants of my close relatives will be. ---
**Author:** ![Brighter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ce73a5/32.png) [@Brighter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brighter)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-climate-change/608843/108 "2012-02-13T15:07:15Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Well, at least he is more fun than others that avoid the evidence… oh wellllll (!) first of all not he; second first of all I don’t tend to discuss with people who can’t discuss; third first of all you are rather unpleasant, that’s why I don’t pursue discussion as you _know better_. You seem to be sorta obsessed with the topic, you don’t like arguments which won’t support your ideas - it closes any debates. Apparently you gave enough evidence to yourself to convince yourself you are right and you _know better_. I’m not here to keep convincing you you do not _know better_, as a matter of fact I don’t care if you do or don’t. Btw, I allow myself to have fun on this topic with you solely because you offer it to me 🆒 ‘Great Debates’ means exchanging opinions, you’re not good at it. Now we keep exchanging opinions about one another (you seem to like it a lot) and that’s fine. You mentioned you are not here to debate (about climate etc.) just to inform and convince, I can’t debate with someone whose intention is exactly opposite: not to debate. What do you expect of me? Start exchanging insults with you? Or pursue anything as pointless as debating with you (as pointless as exchanging insults)? Topic is pretty much dead, you want ressurection, go on, keep flaming, I’ll get bored very soon, people will stop reading it very soon, because the’ll get bored. 🆒 Come on, go on! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-climate-change/608843/109 "2012-02-13T15:20:33Z")
**Brighter** , I’m not sure what _your_ goal is in participating in this thread; it’s clearly not debating. Since you’re new here, let me explain: if you show up in a thread, offer one semi-substantive post, and then start posting nonsense, people will remember the nonsense and forget the rest. The “bye bye” smiley face thing is also particularly irritating. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-climate-change/608843/110 "2012-02-13T15:38:56Z")
**Brighter** , do you think that very religious people associate scientists with atheists, and perhaps this influences their thoughts about a topic like global climate change? Or perhaps do you agree with our friend **FXMastermind** , who thinks that climate change science is a “grand conspiracy” (which is pure evil), and that scientists are busy destroying the world, for money, with no regard for morals or any concept of decency? ---
**Author:** ![Brighter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ce73a5/32.png) [@Brighter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brighter)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-climate-change/608843/111 "2012-02-13T15:51:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > **Brighter** , I’m not sure what _your_ goal is in participating in this thread; now?: see post 108 > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > **Brighter** it’s clearly not debating. It’s an ad hominem debate - and I didn’t start it in this style. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > **Brighter** Since you’re new here, let me explain: if you show up in a thread, offer one semi-substantive post, and then start posting nonsense, people will remember the nonsense and forget the rest. All fora are similar, I may be new here, but I’m not new to fora in general. With ther rest of your statement I disagree. Besides, people think for themselves. Nice nick of yours, brand new?😃 > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > **Brighter** The “bye bye” smiley face thing is also particularly irritating. awwwww, can’t help it! enjoy! ps. your multi pseudo-substantial posts make you unforgettable? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-climate-change/608843/112 "2012-02-13T16:10:32Z")
Care to answer the topic(s) of the debate, rather than engaging in snark against other posters? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-climate-change/608843/113 "2012-02-13T16:14:26Z")
> [@Brighter](#): > > ps. your multi pseudo-substantial posts make you unforgettable? No, my charm and good looks make me unforgettable. My pseudo-substantial posts make me an indispensable link between the leading lights of academia and the average Joe. I happen to agree with you that climate change is questioned because ordinary people can’t necessarily observe the results for themselves. I don’t think high energy physics is a very good example of a field where they can, however. In fact, it’s probably the best counterexample. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-climate-change/608843/114 "2012-02-13T16:19:41Z")
> [@Brighter](#): > > oh wellllll (!) > first of all not he; > second first of all I don’t tend to discuss with people who can’t discuss; > third first of all you are rather unpleasant, that’s why I don’t pursue discussion as you _know better_. > > You seem to be sorta obsessed with the topic, you don’t like arguments which won’t support your ideas - it closes any debates. Life is too short, the overall point you have to get from this subject is that the debate you want to have was done decades if not a century ago, those who claim there is a controversy going among the experts are very late to the party, and the chutzpa is to act like if that is not the case or that there is no overwhelming evidence. The discussion that is needed to happen now is to deal with the reasons of the discrepancy on what experts say and what a good number of the public think, and dealing with the efforts that some powerful forces are doing, telling the American people to do nothing, that tell us to ignore what has been found so far. > **[Merchants of Doubt](https://www.merchantsofdoubt.org/)** > > How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-climate-change/608843/115 "2012-02-13T16:41:25Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The discussion that is needed to happen now is to deal with the reasons of the discrepancy on what experts say and what a good number of the public think, and dealing with the efforts that some powerful forces are doing, telling the American people to do nothing, that tell us to ignore what has been found so far. Yes. Which is pretty much exactly why I posted the OP in the first place. What is it, exactly, that make people buy into the doubt that is being sown by groups funded by oil companies? Is it a distrust of scientists because they are perceived to be atheists? Is it a belief in a “grand conspiracy” of evil, amoral scientists? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-climate-change/608843/116 "2012-02-13T16:58:30Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Yes. > > Which is pretty much exactly why I posted the OP in the first place. What is it, exactly, that make people buy into the doubt that is being sown by groups funded by oil companies > Is it a distrust of scientists because they are perceived to be atheists? As pointed out before, there is a small number of people that do see it that way, but it does not explain the larger numbers, what it is hopeful is that many polls do show that even with all those efforts there is still a majority of people that do think we need to do something to deal with this problem, > [@](#): > > However, most still believe it is happening, even if its not at the top of their list of concerns. According to International Business Times, a study by Yale and George Mason University found it is mainly members of the Tea Party who do not believe climate change is occurring. [Legalplanet.com](http://Legalplanet.com) reported the majority of Democrats (78%), Independents (71%) and Republicans (53%) believe in global warming, while only 34% of the Tea Party agree with them. > > The Hill is quick to point out that there still remains a “sharp partisan divide over its causes.” As the poll describes: > > [Climate Change Poll Finds More Americans Now Believe The Globe Is Warming | HuffPost Impact](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/16/climate-change-poll-american-global-warming_n_966214.html) > > > [@](#): > > > > ``` > > 37% of Democrats believe global warming is the result primarily of human action, while only 14% of Republicans believe this. Conversely, 43% of Republicans believe global warming is the result of natural causes, up from 35% in 2010. Self-identified Tea Party members display still more certainty (49%) that global warming is caused by natural events. > > > > ``` More from the poll: > [@](#): > > A large majority (71%) believe that if warming has been happening, it has been caused either partly (45%) or mostly (27%) by things people have been doing. 27% believe warming to be the result of natural causes. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Is it a belief in a “grand conspiracy” of evil, amoral scientists? I will have to include most of the Republicans and Tea partiers into this column, just a part of what one writer calls “the Republican war on science” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-climate-change/608843/117 "2012-02-13T18:39:12Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Which is pretty much exactly why I posted the OP in the first place. What is it, exactly, that make people buy into the doubt that is being sown by groups funded by oil companies? > > Is it a distrust of scientists because they are perceived to be atheists? > > Is it a belief in a “grand conspiracy” of evil, amoral scientists? Again, for my part, the other side would’ve never had a chance to sow doubt had the prediction been announced so we could all watch it come true or prove false. Imagine a world where, fourteen years ago, folks sounding the warning about global warming had simply added the following: _We need to Do Something, or else it may well cool off for years before returning to present levels before cooling for years before returning to present levels before cooling for years, and so on, possibly for decades – only ever matching, or falling below, the current temperature – but if we don’t observe the specified tenth-of-a-degree-per-decade rise by, say, 2017, then of course this will all be revealed as a silly mistake on our part."_ I’d have been _ **immediately** _ convinced that (a) it was a serious prediction and (b) we indeed need to Do Something. But I didn’t see that message back then – or any time since – on television or in the newspapers; it wasn’t brought to my attention until I asked for clarification hereabouts; absent that, I naturally treated the whole thing as unfalsifiable; thanks to the SDMB, I now know it’s entirely falsifiable and agree we should Do Something. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-climate-change/608843/118 "2012-02-13T18:57:57Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Well, how about this: > > I propose that scientists are NOT busy destroying the world, for money, with no regard for morals or any concept of decency. > > I further propose that climate change science is NOT a “grand conspiracy” (which is pure evil) My answers were what the religious nutjobs think, not my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-climate-change/608843/119 "2012-02-13T20:45:47Z")
[QUOTE=FXMastermind] My answers were what the religious nutjobs think, not my opinion. [/QUOTE] Why don’t you let them speak for themselves then, and limit your answers to what YOU think? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Brighter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ce73a5/32.png) [@Brighter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brighter)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-climate-change/608843/120 "2012-02-13T21:18:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I happen to agree with you that climate change is questioned because ordinary people can’t necessarily observe the results for themselves. Awwww, no again, climate change is not being questioned - it changes all the time. Effects of long term predictions are being questioned. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I don’t think high energy physics is a very good example of a field where they can, however. In fact, it’s probably the best counterexample. Course it was a good example. People know pretty much awful lot about nuclear power plants, about risks and advantages. /no more fighting? I’m disappointed! argh/ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-climate-change/608843.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-climate-change/608843.md?page=7)