# Atheists and the rest of us **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 4, 2004, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-the-rest-of-us/253504 "2004-07-04T16:30:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-the-rest-of-us/253504/1 "2004-07-04T16:30:14Z")
(paraphrased from Carl Sagan’s CONTACT) Fully 90% of the world’s population believe in a God or gods, a soul or spirit, the afterlife…some supernatural/paranormal existance beyond the physical reality we percieve. Do Atheists believe us 90%'ers suffer from some sad delusion? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-the-rest-of-us/253504/2 "2004-07-04T16:33:49Z")
It has been my experience that most do not. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-the-rest-of-us/253504/3 "2004-07-04T16:37:54Z")
Some of us do. And some theists think \*\*we \*\*suffer from a sad delusion. So what? And by the way, the numbers are irrelevent. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-the-rest-of-us/253504/4 "2004-07-04T16:47:43Z")
The sad delusion part only comes in when you expect me to accept the articles of your particular faith on the same level that I accept provable facts. I am agnostic, for what it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-the-rest-of-us/253504/5 "2004-07-04T16:51:32Z")
On the SDMB they do :-p ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-the-rest-of-us/253504/6 "2004-07-04T16:58:39Z")
> [@Enola Straight](#): > > (paraphrased from Carl Sagan’s CONTACT) > > Fully 90% of the world’s population believe in a God or gods, a soul or spirit, the afterlife…some supernatural/paranormal existance beyond the physical reality we percieve. > > Do Atheists believe us 90%'ers suffer from some sad delusion? Yes, but as long as you don’t try to get us to share in your particular delusions and let us enjoy ours, we can live with it. I’m not smart enough to be a true atheist. I just don’t know and see little evidence to support the supernaturalist’s delusion. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-the-rest-of-us/253504/7 "2004-07-04T17:09:11Z")
I’m an atheist who feels that belief in God is more like an old-fashioned scientific belief that the majority still believe, because it’s still useful. Sort of like when 90 percent of the population thought the Sun went around the Earth. That was a useful belief, in that it explained why we have night and day. Not quite correctly, of course. The folks who believed it weren’t delusional, just wrong. I feel much the same way about most theists. Their belief is IMO wrong, but it’s likely very useful to them and can explain many things for them. It’s not delusional, just incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-the-rest-of-us/253504/8 "2004-07-04T17:23:07Z")
> [@Enola Straight](#): > > Fully 90% of the world’s population believe in a God or gods, a soul or spirit, the afterlife…some supernatural/paranormal existance beyond the physical reality we percieve. You’ve misdirected your question, since this category doesn’t exclude atheists. (The fact that it’s 90% of the world’s population should make this clear. In [the SD “What’s the most popular religion?” column](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mreligio.html), **Eutychus** writes “Strangely enough, if you count it as religion, atheism is #2 at 1,782,809,000.” The column is undated, but even today that’s more than a quarter of the world’s population.) There are atheists who believe in various supernatural or paranormal phenomena, be it aliens or souls or whatnot. They just don’t think god is responsible for them. You’re talking to materialists, or skeptics, or whatever you might call it. Since I guess I fall into that category also: do I think you’re wrong? Definitely. “Sad delusion?” Come on. Even _I’m_ not that obnoxious. ---
**Author:** ![Chata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Chata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chata)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-the-rest-of-us/253504/9 "2004-07-04T17:31:55Z")
There are innumerable Gods who you personally do not believe in. I suppose you think they are all wrong. So what. Think of it this way. There was a time, except for a few leading scholars, 99% of the population believed every word of the bible, four corners and all, that the world was flat. The majority doesn’t often mean right. Now we all know the world is an oblate spheroid. 90% of the world can think whatever brings them comfort, as long as they don’t interfere with my freedom. I dont really see anything wrong with proclaiming one’s faith, just as there is nothing wrong with proclaiming one’s lack of faith. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-the-rest-of-us/253504/10 "2004-07-04T17:34:28Z")
Something like that. Of course, I can’t speak for all atheists. But… > [@](#): > > Fully 90% of the world’s population believe in a God or gods, a soul or spirit, the afterlife…some supernatural/paranormal existance beyond the physical reality we percieve. Do Atheists believe us 90%'ers suffer from some sad delusion? (First, a technicality - atheist means not having a belief in God, so someone who believed in some other spirituality, afterlife, Elvis-reincarnation, etc, would be an atheist. But I’m assuming we’re talking about what you and I, and pretty much everyone in all these groups thinks of when you say “atheist” - basically a skeptic; someone who hasn’t seen any evidence for any of this and hence doesn’t believe it.) But I think the real question is are atheists a distinguished group by that property, neh? Well, we’d probably like to think so. But wouldn’t a protestant find someone who believed in, say, tarot equally delusional? What would a “Satanist” think of a Muslim? What would Indian shaman think of a Buddhist koan? Don’t most people tend to lump ‘everyone else’ together? Sometimes all Christians, or even all monotheists, agree, but isn’t there also a perception among , say, some Christians that everyone from catholics to atheists to satan worshippers to alien abductees are basically the same - rebels against God? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-the-rest-of-us/253504/11 "2004-07-04T17:37:01Z")
People can be mistaken, or misinterpreting things, without characterizing it as being “deluded.” Anyone that’s lived in the world for a bit knows that we often turn out to be mistaken about a lot of things we take for granted, and our ignorance is vast. I think in general, it’s best understand truth as exactly what it is: assumptions that seem to work at present given our experience and reasoning and our ultimately unfounded desire to reason and pay attention to experience. And a wide range of things, especially internal experiences, are subjective or interperative. If you understand something as a conscience or as God speaking to you, or not as words at all, is there any real, clear right or wrong this perception? ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-the-rest-of-us/253504/12 "2004-07-04T17:38:01Z")
> [@Chata](#): > > Think of it this way. There was a time, except for a few leading scholars, 99% of the population believed every word of the bible, four corners and all, that the world was flat. The majority doesn’t often mean right. For someone preaching the virtues of knowledge, you need to do some more research. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-the-rest-of-us/253504/13 "2004-07-04T17:43:01Z")
That’s an interesting list, **Marley23**. What I find most interesting about it is that it lumps together people who might not wish to be lumped together, such as Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, Sunni and Shiite Muslim, etc. A re-vamped list looks like this: Atheism: 1, 782,809,000 Roman Catholic: 981,465,000 Sunni Muslim: 934,850,000 Hindu: 793,075,000 Protestant Christian: 404,020,000 Buddhist: 325,275,000 Other Christian: 282, 258, 000 Orthodox Christian: 218,350,000 Shiite Muslim: 180,212,000 Anglican: 69,136,000 Sikh: 19,508,000 Jews: 13,968,000 Other Muslim: 11,263,000 Baha’i: 6,404,000 Confucians: 5, 086,000 Jains: 4, 620,000 Shinto: 2,897,500 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-the-rest-of-us/253504/14 "2004-07-04T17:52:31Z")
> [@scotandrsn](#): > > That’s an interesting list, **Marley23**. What I find most interesting about it is that it lumps together people who might not wish to be lumped together, such as Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, Sunni and Shiite Muslim, etc. You raise an interesting point. They might not wish to be, but I can see why you’d lump them together all the same. Extreme Sunni might not think the Shi’a are Muslim, for example, but they still do share enough basic ideas that I think it makes sense. In any case, **Euty** ’s comment was predicated on “if you count [atheism] as a religion,” so he was recognizing the fact that it’s not one. Aside from the “god not existing” thing, the beliefs of atheists are no more uniform than Muslims or Christians or anybody else. ---
**Author:** ![Chata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Chata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chata)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-the-rest-of-us/253504/15 "2004-07-04T18:03:46Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > For someone preaching the virtues of knowledge, you need to do some more research. You are right, it was a flippant remark. I wasn’t thinking of the % of the population that were not “Christians”. I was trying to make a point with a quick response. Preaching is a funny word to use. ---
**Author:** ![Chata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Chata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chata)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-the-rest-of-us/253504/16 "2004-07-04T18:05:46Z")
> [@scotandrsn](#): > > Atheism: 1, 782,809,000 > Roman Catholic: 981,465,000 > Sunni Muslim: 934,850,000 > Hindu: 793,075,000 > Protestant Christian: 404,020,000 > Buddhist: 325,275,000 > Other Christian: 282, 258, 000 > Orthodox Christian: 218,350,000 > Shiite Muslim: 180,212,000 > Anglican: 69,136,000 > Sikh: 19,508,000 > Jews: 13,968,000 > Other Muslim: 11,263,000 > Baha’i: 6,404,000 > Confucians: 5, 086,000 > Jains: 4, 620,000 > Shinto: 2,897,500 Where can I find this list? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-the-rest-of-us/253504/17 "2004-07-04T18:13:13Z")
> [@Chata](#): > > Where can I find this list? It’s just a modified version of the list **Eutychus** used in the column I linked to. The original went like this (slightly rephrased for brevity): Christianity: 1,955,229,000 members. (_Roman Catholics : 981,465,000; Protestants : 404,020,000; Orthodox : 218,350,000; Anglicans : 69,136,000;Other Christians : 282,258,000_) atheism: 1,782,809,000. Islam: 1,126,325,000 (_83% Sunnis, 16% Shi’ites, 1% other_) Hindus : 793,075,000 Buddhists : 325,275,000 Sikhs : 19,508,000 Jews : 13,968,000 Baha’is : 6,404,000 Confucians : 5,086,000 Jains : 4,620,000 Shintoists : 2,897,500 This must be at least a few years old, since I’m sure the gap between Christianity and Islam is a good deal smaller now (Islam should pass Christianity fairly soon). ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-the-rest-of-us/253504/18 "2004-07-04T18:13:57Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You raise an interesting point. They might not wish to be, but I can see why you’d lump them together all the same. Extreme Sunni might not think the Shi’a are Muslim, for example, but they still do share enough basic ideas that I think it makes sense. In any case, **Euty** ’s comment was predicated on “if you count [atheism] as a religion,” so he was recognizing the fact that it’s not one. Aside from the “god not existing” thing, the beliefs of atheists are no more uniform than Muslims or Christians or anybody else. Oh, there are certainly reasons for the lumping, as far as tracking how many people share similar basic belief systems, but when you get to the sorts of arguments like this OP, which is: 1. We’re right 2. You’re wrong 3. 'Cuz just look at how many of us there are I think you then need to take into account just who wants to be included in “us”. > [@One of my Mon's favorite jokes](#): > > Lone Ranger: Tonto! We’re surrounded by Indians! > Tonto: Whadaya mean “we”, White Man? ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-the-rest-of-us/253504/19 "2004-07-04T18:14:19Z")
> [@Chata](#): > > There are innumerable Gods who you personally do not believe in. I suppose you think they are all wrong. So what. > > Think of it this way. There was a time, except for a few leading scholars, 99% of the population believed every word of the bible, four corners and all, that the world was flat. The majority doesn’t often mean right. > > Now we all know the world is an oblate spheroid. > > 90% of the world can think whatever brings them comfort, as long as they don’t interfere with my freedom. I dont really see anything wrong with proclaiming one’s faith, just as there is nothing wrong with proclaiming one’s lack of faith. Just to pick a nit here…(I’m not particuarly interested in the OP or it’s premise…) If I understand your post, you seem to infer that those who believe(d) that the bible was flat came from the bible. It would certainly appear that’s what you’re doing. Do I have that right? (“four corners and all”) That the religious establishment had us believe the world is (was) flat is documented, but was a fiction perpetrated by\*\* them\*\*. (sincerely one would assume…) The bible identified the earth as being a globe a few thousand years before Galileo. My point is simply this: To the extent a falsehood was perpetuated, place the culpability where is rightly should rest. In this case, it was the religious establishment that got it wrong. the bible says very. very little on the subject, but got it _right._ ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-the-rest-of-us/253504/20 "2004-07-04T18:16:18Z")
> [@Chata](#): > > You are right, it was a flippant remark. I wasn’t thinking of the % of the population that were not “Christians”. I was trying to make a point with a quick response. You’re also leaving out the fact that the Greeks and Romans knew the world was round and all kinds of other scientific facts, and those were well known even in the medieval era. > [@](#): > > Preaching is a funny word to use. I’m snarky like that. 😉 > [@](#): > > **The bigass list** I find it curious that the list divides the major religions into every tiny sect they can, but does not list “agnostic.” I’d like to see the source of that list and see their methodology, as well. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-and-the-rest-of-us/253504.md?page=2)