# Atheists, are you offended by "Under God"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 15, 2004, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-are-you-offended-by-under-god/250451 "2004-06-15T11:28:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-are-you-offended-by-under-god/250451/21 "2004-06-15T16:39:27Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > I’m not offended as much as amused that a lot of people want to make a public display of their piety despite Matthew’s proscription and furthermore want to have everyone join them in it. Interesting, **David.** I haven’t seen Matthew’s quote of Jesus brought up in this context before, but it certainly fits. “They have their reward.” Indeed. 🙂 Directly answering the OP: I wasn’t offended when the phrase was originally added, because I was too young to understand the implications. But as I matured and became aware of my disbelief such expressions made me feel excluded, not so much from the basic rights of citizenship, but from the kinship of my fellow citizens. The use of “Under God” and “In God we trust,” I believe, are deliberate attempts to make outsiders of otherwise good citizens just because they don’t go along. It is distinctly un-American IMO. ---
**Author:** ![jeevwoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@jeevwoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeevwoman)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-are-you-offended-by-under-god/250451/22 "2004-06-15T17:08:03Z")
> [@Gaudere](#): > > I think it’s a damn shame that the official pledge of my country is one I cannot say in good faith. Is my allegiance to the US? Yes. Am I a good citizen? Yes. Do I follow the laws of my country and believe in its constitution? Yes. Do I vote and pay my taxes? Yes. Yet the pledge seems to be saying that I must beleive the ideal of the nation is “under God” to be a properly “allegianced” citizen. It’s a shame that a good citizen otherwise would be so excluded. What Gaudere said. Though since my dad pointed out to me in about the third grade that the “under god” part was added later, I stopped saying it all together. I used to just skip that part and wait for everyone else before continuing; now I say as loudly as I can, “one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all,” to make a point of ignoring it. In general, though, I am not a big fan of the pledge, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-are-you-offended-by-under-god/250451/23 "2004-06-15T17:08:22Z")
I’m not offended per se, I just find it idiotic, annoying and unfitting. **MEBuckner** said it so well that I don’t have anything to add. ---
**Author:** ![Faldage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Faldage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Faldage)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-are-you-offended-by-under-god/250451/24 "2004-06-15T17:15:31Z")
I’m more bothered by those who feel they have more allegiance to the flag than they do to the republic for which it stands. ---
**Author:** ![alimarx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@alimarx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alimarx)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-are-you-offended-by-under-god/250451/25 "2004-06-15T17:30:47Z")
The last few times I felt obligated to recite this thing at my daughter’s various school assemblies, why did _everyone else_ appear offended when I left out “under god”? ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-are-you-offended-by-under-god/250451/26 "2004-06-15T17:41:08Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > a separate act of Congress proclaimed “In God We Trust” to be the official national motto of the U.S. (replacing _E pluribus unum_, “Out of many, one” I somehow never realized this was true. How utterly repugnant. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-are-you-offended-by-under-god/250451/27 "2004-06-15T17:43:20Z")
I’m not offended by “under God,” though I am _annoyed_ by it. It is one of my fundamental beliefs that a core strength of the United States is that it’s not a theocracy, and that policies aren’t made by arbitrary dictates of any holy book. Stuff like “Under God” and “In God We Trust” undermine that foundation, and gives the loonies a “justification” for their efforts to theocracize this nation. 😛 Still, on the list of Important Stuff That Needs To Be Fixed, this is near the bottom. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-are-you-offended-by-under-god/250451/28 "2004-06-15T17:51:06Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > a separate act of Congress proclaimed “In God We Trust” to be the official national motto of the U.S. (replacing _E pluribus unum_, “Out of many, one”, although _E pluribus unum_ still appears on all U.S. coins along with “Liberty” and “IGWT”. Do you have a link for that? The last I heard, both phrases were co-existing as co-mottos. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-are-you-offended-by-under-god/250451/29 "2004-06-15T18:02:20Z")
Atheist here. On the few occasions that I recite the pledge I bristle a bit at the “under God” part-- a very, very, small bit. Usually it’s something you say without even thinking about the meaning. I would think that religious people of a non-Judeo/Christian tradition would be more offended. But in the end, it just seems rather silly to have to add that phrase to what is an entirely secular saying. However, I also think that people read too much into the constitution when they insist on complete separation of church and state. As much as I’d like that to be in there, it really isn’t. I’m also too much of a realist to expect that we’ll ever change it in our lifetimes. In fact, if we were re-writing the constution today, I’d expect the establishment clause would be even weaker than it is in delineating a separation of church and state. There would probably be some lawyerly preamble to that amendment along the lines of “Congress may recognize the importance of religion in the lives of the citizens, but it shall not pass any law respecting the establishment…” ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-are-you-offended-by-under-god/250451/30 "2004-06-15T18:30:15Z")
Adding to what others have said, I am _annoyed_ by it, I am _disappointed_ in my country for doing it, and I am _fatigued_ by treating it as a beachhead, a tolerable intrusion that I will grudgingly accept but that I regard as “this far and no farther” — but _offended_? I’m not sure that’s the right word. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-are-you-offended-by-under-god/250451/31 "2004-06-15T20:47:32Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Do you have a link for that? The last I heard, both phrases were co-existing as co-mottos. [36 U.S.C. 302](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/36/302.html): > [@](#): > > ‘‘In God we trust’’ is the national motto. _E pluribus unum_ is one of several phrases which are mandated by law to appear on all U.S. coins: From [31 U.S.C. 5112](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/31/5112.html): > [@](#): > > United States coins shall have the inscription ‘‘In God We Trust’’. The obverse side of each coin shall have the inscription ‘‘Liberty’’. The reverse side of each coin shall have the inscriptions ‘‘United States of America’’ and ‘‘E Pluribus Unum’’ and a designation of the value of the coin. The design on the reverse side of the dollar, half dollar, and quarter dollar is an eagle. The Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Congress, shall select appropriate designs for the obverse and reverse sides of the dollar coin. The coins have an inscription of the year of minting or issuance. However, to prevent or alleviate a shortage of a denomination, the Secretary may inscribe coins of the denomination with the year that was last inscribed on coins of the denomination. Note that this only applies to coins. With the exception of the $1 bill, _E pluribus unum_ doesn’t appear on our paper money (it’s on the $1 bill because it’s part of the Seal of the United States, which is depicted on the reverse of the bill). As best I can tell, the phrase _E Pluribus Unum_ does not appear anywhere else in the U.S. Code. (I kind of expected [4 U.S.C. 41](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/4/41.html) to have a lot of fancy heraldic language in it specifying what the Seal of the United States, including what the scroll in the eagle’s beak says, but basically all the statute says is “the seal of the United States is the same one we’ve always used”. I guess we all know it when we see it.) ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-are-you-offended-by-under-god/250451/32 "2004-06-15T20:59:52Z")
I don’t know that I’m offended, but I don’t like it. If the purpose of the pledge is to make us feel united as Americans, why include a part that insists on belief in any god, let alone belief in a JudeoChristian one? And if we wish to express trust in some authority through a motto on our money, I’d prefer Alan Greenspan. The ideals of America transcend any one religion. To tie them to any religious faith makes them weaker, not stronger. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-are-you-offended-by-under-god/250451/33 "2004-06-15T21:10:07Z")
I forgot to mention that I am definitely not an atheist. I do not want others to force their beliefs on me. I do not want my beliefs forced on others. I do not want the government endorsing any religion, or any god. ---
**Author:** ![The\_27th\_Evil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ebca7d/32.png) [@The\_27th\_Evil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_27th_Evil)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-are-you-offended-by-under-god/250451/34 "2004-06-15T22:41:09Z")
When I had to say it, I just said “one nation, under Canada.” No one gave me second look over it… ---
**Author:** ![Zulema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/db5fbb/32.png) [@Zulema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zulema)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-are-you-offended-by-under-god/250451/35 "2004-06-15T23:42:58Z")
I’m not offended by the “under God” portion of the Pledge of Allegience, I just don’t say that part. We are one nation, indivisable, no matter what. What does strike me as wrong is the implication, by that phrase, that somehow God has picked out The United States and given us special protection and approval. It also bothers me when people put out all the signs that say “God Bless America” the minute we have a conflict with another country. If there is a God wouldn’t he bless everyone? I would think Christians would be the most offended at the casual reciting of “under God” and the God’s blessing signs that are put out without any thought of the meaning behind them. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-are-you-offended-by-under-god/250451/36 "2004-06-15T23:59:42Z")
Being in a more secular place, I’ve only once felt particularly awkward about such a reference to God - when I was giving evidence in court, and the usher without asking just handed me the ‘religious’ wording of the oath. He’d already disappeared to the other side of the court by the time I realised, but I still asked for the ‘other one’. I was very relieved to see the identical thing happen to the police officer giving evidence after me 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-are-you-offended-by-under-god/250451/37 "2004-06-16T00:10:16Z")
> [@SP2263](#): > > We are one nation, indivisable, no matter what. We are? Since when? Reciting blind oaths of loyalty. Very modern idea. Secondly, I love how it is always “Christian or Atheist” ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-are-you-offended-by-under-god/250451/38 "2004-06-16T00:16:11Z")
> [@Dog80](#): > > These phrases do not offend me, because I know that all these things do not exist. I find these references stupid, but I couldn’t care less. It seems however that many atheists are offended. Why? What is your reasoning? Doesn’t offend me in the least. It’s just ‘window dressing’. A bit of Americana. Nobody is trying to convernt me through ‘In God we Trust’ or ‘One nation, under God’, and the efforts of morons like Nedow certainly don’t do much for atheists, under than sully the word (even further). ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-are-you-offended-by-under-god/250451/39 "2004-06-16T00:52:07Z")
I think having pro-religion (In God We Trust) statements on anything related to the government is contradictory to a nation based on (among many other things) a separation of church and state. _Offended_ by it? It’s beneath my notice. ---
**Author:** ![Zulema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/db5fbb/32.png) [@Zulema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zulema)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-are-you-offended-by-under-god/250451/40 "2004-06-16T01:22:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by SP2263 > We are one nation, indivisable, no matter what. > [@](#): > > Originally posted by Zagadka > We are? Since when? OK, you’re right, we aren’t, but as far as what the pledge is intended to do, encourage some sort of patriotic spirit, it shouldn’t matter if there is a god for us to be under or not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-are-you-offended-by-under-god/250451.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-are-you-offended-by-under-god/250451.md?page=3)