# Atheist's family claims he was Christian at his funeral. Should they be called on it? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 6, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-family-claims-he-was-christian-at-his-funeral-should-they-be-called-on-it/700564 "2014-10-06T17:29:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-family-claims-he-was-christian-at-his-funeral-should-they-be-called-on-it/700564/21 "2014-10-06T18:23:56Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > The atheists wrote her off after she stole from all of them. Were they supposed to be infinitely enabling her of addiction? Certainly not. Are you suggesting her brother was an enabler? Or is there perhaps a third, more Jesus-esque option, that involves accepting someone for their faults and helping them to master them? Your example is necessarily silent on the matter, but my own experiences and prejudices compel me to believe the roots of her bad behavior were never the focus with her family as much as the stuff she did. I do, however, recognize some form of abandonment as a necessary (interventions come to mind) part of generating the deisre to reform. I stand by my point, though. Her brother was, ostensibly, one of her former victims. And it was he alone who had the bravery to forgive. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-family-claims-he-was-christian-at-his-funeral-should-they-be-called-on-it/700564/22 "2014-10-06T18:24:17Z")
> [@Boogly](#): > > Funerals are to help the living move on. There is no reason to cause more hurt in the family that is hurting already. And why burn down bridges she may want in the future? Her family had welcomed her warmly. > > IMHO, Amber should give the churchy eulogy and remember Mitch how she wants to. Church songs and eulogies aren’t causing Mitch to squirm in his casket. The only person stressing out seems to be Amber. > > Maybe the family knew one facet of Mitch and Amber knew another. Funerals also shouldn’t be used to manipulate people and memories. ---
**Author:** ![runningdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@runningdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runningdude)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-family-claims-he-was-christian-at-his-funeral-should-they-be-called-on-it/700564/23 "2014-10-06T18:32:07Z")
It sounds to me that there would be plenty of good things to say about Mitch, without broaching the topic of religion at all. She need not lie and say Mitch was a faithful Christian, nor draw attention to the fact that he repudiated Christianity. She need only speak of his caring warmth. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-family-claims-he-was-christian-at-his-funeral-should-they-be-called-on-it/700564/24 "2014-10-06T18:38:25Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > The honest eulogy, as described in the OP, is one that “Mitch would approve of.” It does not say that Mitch was a raving atheist who felt a need to spout off about his religious views at every opportunity. > > I took it to mean she didn’t need to go up there and talk about Mitch’s supposed religious faith where he clearly had none. I think she could deliver a perfectly honest eulogy without the need to discuss religion at all. Hence the family being able to form their own opinion. > > Are we supposed to totally disregard her feelings, since she’s the one being pressured into lying, for the sake of people wanting to be spoon-fed a load of crap? We are agreeing with each other. As I said in my first post: > [@](#): > > Again putting myself into the equation, you could talk about my ethics, personality and love for those close without ever mentioning religion or lack thereof. There is zero need to stir up shit at a funeral. You don’t have to lie. But you don’t have to mention everything. Just like you don’t have to mention that Mitch shoplifted when he was 14 or that he always hated cousin Judy. It’s a hard enough time for everyone. Just let it go and let the family grieve for one afternoon. I thought I made it clear that I believe she could give an honest eulogy without mentioning religion or the lack of religion. Unless her brother was Christopher Hitchens her brother’s lack of faith was not his most notable feature. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-family-claims-he-was-christian-at-his-funeral-should-they-be-called-on-it/700564/25 "2014-10-06T18:41:21Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > When Janet Jeppson Asimov had breast cancer, ca. 1974, she was asked to write a first-person feature on it. She didn’t want to. Isaac pointed out that she should, and be the first such survivor NOT to claim faith and prayer saved her. > > It’s important to stand up and be known as an atheist, without being any bigger jerk than you have to be, but not allow family or social pressure to keep you silent, especially in the face of a contrary claim. She should deliver a moving eulogy that mentions her brother’s lack of religious faith in passing and say nothing else about the topic. Do you mean that it’s important for Amber to stand up and be known as an atheist? I ask because the OP does not say or even imply that she is. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-family-claims-he-was-christian-at-his-funeral-should-they-be-called-on-it/700564/26 "2014-10-06T18:47:27Z")
Give the real eulogy. Religious “feelings” are coddled way too much in general. Where’s the bar? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-family-claims-he-was-christian-at-his-funeral-should-they-be-called-on-it/700564/27 "2014-10-06T18:47:58Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Do you mean that it’s important for Amber to stand up and be known as an atheist? I ask because the OP does not say or even imply that she is. How about honoring _him_ for being a good atheist? Once again, this isn’t about her or her family-this is about him. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-family-claims-he-was-christian-at-his-funeral-should-they-be-called-on-it/700564/28 "2014-10-06T18:50:27Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Give the real eulogy. Religious “feelings” are coddled way too much in general. > > Where’s the bar? Whaddaya think this is, an Episcopalian funeral? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-family-claims-he-was-christian-at-his-funeral-should-they-be-called-on-it/700564/29 "2014-10-06T18:55:19Z")
How strong would this “Just go along to make the family happy” argument be if the fake conversion had been from gay to straight to satisfy the family’s(and family’s religious community’s) need? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-family-claims-he-was-christian-at-his-funeral-should-they-be-called-on-it/700564/30 "2014-10-06T18:58:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How about honoring _him_ for being a good atheist? Once again, this isn’t about her or her family-this is about him. He was an atheist. He knows there is no afterlife. It is not about him. He is not around to care. It’s about those who are still alive. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-family-claims-he-was-christian-at-his-funeral-should-they-be-called-on-it/700564/31 "2014-10-06T19:01:49Z")
I’m a bit ambivalent about this one. On the one hand, I’m not really one for ceremonies and, in fact, the whole point of a funeral isn’t about honoring the dead, per se, as much as it is about helping those left behind with their grieving process which usually leads to it, but I’d say it’s more important to fulfill the needs for grief than specifically honoring the person, whatever that means. Further, there comes the question of what exactly is needed for someone to grieve. If someone was a genuinely good and well-liked person, then people will pretty much only have good things to say about them. Hell, even if they’re pretty average, death has a way of helping us forget a lot of the bad stuff. But what if someone was just rotten to the core or if someone who really needs to be there, like a child or sibling, had a very rough relationship with that person. Should that person who maybe feels the need to air things out not do so for the sake of others? Or in this case here, the question is whether or not her need to be honest outweighs the grief of her family. That’s a tough call. On the other hand, since it is clear that she wants to honor him, I’m not really sure exactly what that means. For some people, religious or atheist, that is something that is integral to who they are. For instance, my dad is very religious, attends church multiple times a week, it would be remiss of anyone giving a eulogy not to mention that. But for me, though I am a theist, I’m not defined by my theistic beliefs; in fact, other than the few people I’ve really gone into depth with on it, I’m not sure anyone else would be in the right place to say anything about it. Similarly, I’ve known atheists on both sides, some who are defined by that, and some who you really wouldn’t know either way. So, the question she should ask herself is, really, how important is his atheism to who he was? From the story, that he’d even repudiate a chaplain, it sounds like it may have been something that was part of defining who he was. So, with all that consideration, particularly given that she’d been largely disowned by her family anyway, she deserves to do what she needs to do to be at peace with his death and help her grieving. Further, though it would probably upset her family, I don’t think it’s a particularly healthy way to grieve by pretending that someone was something he wasn’t. And, I’d think it would even help her stay clean more, by being straight with the one person that was helping her, than forsaking that one connection for the hope of reconnecting with the rest of the family. If that connection was enough to make her go to that meeting and write the new eulogy, then it’s probably the one most worth cherishing and honoring. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-family-claims-he-was-christian-at-his-funeral-should-they-be-called-on-it/700564/32 "2014-10-06T19:02:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How about honoring _him_ for being a good atheist? Once again, this isn’t about her or her family-this is about him. What is a good atheist? Atheism has no teachings, no beliefs, no tenets, no rules. Mitch was a good brother, at least to Amber; he may have been a good brother and son overall, but the OP doesn’t say, and it’s likewise silent on whether he was a good person overall. But I don’t think the phrase “good atheist” has any possible meaning, unless it’s short for “good person who was an atheist.” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-family-claims-he-was-christian-at-his-funeral-should-they-be-called-on-it/700564/33 "2014-10-06T19:02:15Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Mitch has died. Not much point in staying true to those who do not exist. I disagree. ALthough he is, strictly speaking, dead, our understandings of dead people can function almost like a relationship: the way we think about the departed can shape who we become while we still live. She should stay true to her memory of him. The way you describe the honest eulogy sounds perfect to me: she talks about him as an excellent person whose high ethics are informed by his atheism. As long as she doesn’t go the next step and imply that theists are less ethical than atheists, I think this is the version she should give. Sure, it’s going to upset family members who are bigots–but at the same time, it might introduce a new perspective to some bigots at a pivotal and memorable moment. If the situation were reversed, I’d absolutely call for a dead bornagainer to have an accurate eulogy read at his funeral, no matter the feelings of his atheist family. Honoring the dead is a promise to the living, that we’ll represent them accurately when they’re gone, and we’ll be shaped by who they were, not who we pretended they were. > [@](#): > > What purpose is served by Amber’s lobbing a live grenade at the funeral? Because that is what reading the second eulogy is; she will be pretty much calling her siblings and parents liars, and renewing the estrangement between herself and them, and sharply reducing the odds that they will be available to support her in this stressful time. Is that what Mitch would want? It’s tremendously unfair to suggest that Amber is lobbing a live grenade. Rather, family members who suggest he was a devout Christian have lobbed a grenade at Amber and at Mitch’s memory. If telling the truth about him necessarily calls them out as liars, perhaps they will have the occasion, going forward, not to lie about the departed. Amber cannot bear the blame for their poor choices. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-family-claims-he-was-christian-at-his-funeral-should-they-be-called-on-it/700564/34 "2014-10-06T19:02:43Z")
Funerals are for the living, not for the dead. Bow to what will benefit/make happy the family for the funeral. I don’t see the benefit to pissing off the family under the circumstances. She can remain true to herself without starting battles over religion. Proselytizing at a funeral is something a Christian would do, why does an atheist, or Amber, need to attempt to change peoples’ minds at such a time? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-family-claims-he-was-christian-at-his-funeral-should-they-be-called-on-it/700564/35 "2014-10-06T19:05:57Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > He was an atheist. He knows there is no afterlife. It is not about him. He is not around to care. It’s about those who are still alive. And remembering them as best as you can. Memories are fragile, and are best protected by frequent applications of truth. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-family-claims-he-was-christian-at-his-funeral-should-they-be-called-on-it/700564/36 "2014-10-06T19:07:59Z")
Perhaps we would have to see the two eulogies before making a final decision. I wouldn’t encourage Amber to say anything combative, nor to proseletyze. But portraying his love and devotion to her, and his sacrifice, which enabled her to kick her drug habit, as an intrinsic part of his identity as an atheist, is fine. Further, it’s probably necessary for her to be honest for her own self-respect and self-worth. She might piss off her family, but in the long run she’ll be better off if she doesn’t ruin her own sense of self – and being dishonest about Mitch might do that. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-family-claims-he-was-christian-at-his-funeral-should-they-be-called-on-it/700564/37 "2014-10-06T19:11:23Z")
No job is too hard for the person who does not have to do it. No consequence is too hard for the people who do not have to live with it. She should have just said, “No.” when asked. This scenario has been played out a million times. How many chose to blow up the funeral? How many times did blowing up the funeral create a positive out come for the reader in the long run? How many did it again at the next family funeral? IMO, causing an uproar at a family funeral when their are several ways to not do what is needed so that I can leave my personal hang ups intact to save my ‘delicate flower’ self which I put myself into the situation because I was too much of a wimp to politely decline, is one of the high points in a completely self centered life. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-family-claims-he-was-christian-at-his-funeral-should-they-be-called-on-it/700564/38 "2014-10-06T19:12:13Z")
Neither one. She needs a third option, that celebrates Mitch’s life, but won’t offend his family. There is no reason to mention religion at all. Other speakers apparently have covered that issue. Mitch is dead, so nothing she says is going to matter to him. No need to confront those that want to think Mitch followed that old time religion. No need to start a fight at a funeral. Discretion is the better part of valor in situations like this. She can talk about what a great person her brother was, and most of what he did for her, and she can otherwise sit down and shut the fuck up about the religion issue. It doesn’t matter, and it is definitely not worth causing a scene over. Just let it be, and do what it takes to keep the peace. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-family-claims-he-was-christian-at-his-funeral-should-they-be-called-on-it/700564/39 "2014-10-06T19:12:16Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Proselytizing at a funeral is something a Christian would do, why does an atheist, or Amber, need to attempt to change peoples’ minds at such a time? By shoehorning in this fake deathbed conversion, _they_ are the ones attempting to change peoples minds about their son. You don’t get to put that one on Amber, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-family-claims-he-was-christian-at-his-funeral-should-they-be-called-on-it/700564/40 "2014-10-06T19:13:30Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Funerals are for the living, not for the dead. > > Bow to what will benefit/make happy the family for the funeral. These are the words everyone at the funeral should be saying, not just the one or two who who haven’t drunk the Christian Kool Aid. From the OP, it looks like devout in the group are the ones a who will make a stink and ruin the funeral if they don’t get exactly what they want. Bowing to that pressure is almost impossible. What percentage of Christians in an audience is required before anyone else is allowed to practice their own beliefs? 90%? 50%? Or does it have to be 0% Christain before Amber can give HER eulogy to her brother? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-family-claims-he-was-christian-at-his-funeral-should-they-be-called-on-it/700564.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-family-claims-he-was-christian-at-his-funeral-should-they-be-called-on-it/700564.md?page=3)