Okay, I’ll bite on this one. They are all correct. By correct I don’t mean accurate, just correct. They are all cultural relections of the same God. Even the ones that are not based on a God. It’s the blind man and the elephant. Many different descriptions for the same thing. On one level, they all have the same intent and that is to seek a higher power. Their success is polluted by the inability to see that they are all the same. They are usually offended by any comparison. Religion is arrogant.
Doc Nickel said,
Now that’s not true. God also performed heart surgery on Poly.
Levity aside, there is no justice, but I try to treat people fairly. It’s impossible for everyone to get a fair shake, but I think most people make the effort. If I find $100, I try to find the owner because I’d like someone to do the same if I was the one who dropped the money. I don’t think everything evens out in the end. It’s a crapshoot, but I also think most people get equal shares of good and bad in their lives.
God also gave Poly some of my money and some of other peoples monies to him when he was in need. Whether God consulted everybody before finalizing those financial transactions is yet to be known.
Well Judaism says Jesus wasn’t the son of God.
Christianity says he was.
This is far more serious than differences in a bunch of blind people describing bits of an elephant!
P.S. Excellent post earlier in reply to Stereotypical Fundie. 
Oh sure when I make points for “your side” you’re okay, but let me try to make one little point for myself and I get busted. 
None of those things matter. Jesus doesn’t matter (oh ow, that gives me a sharp pain). Just a touch of the old brainwash flairing up.
Jesus was an example, not the sole(soul) ticket of admission. If you’re going strictly by what the Bible says about Jesus(and I don’t), you would also have to consider the verses that talk about God closing his chosen peoples eyes, until the time was right. So he gives us this HUGE sign, but doesn’t let most of the world see it. IMHO there are only three possible answers to this. The first is we just got it wrong and the other answer is God is wrong or there is no God. I’m counting on man’s fallibility. And before you point out the irony in that, I’ll point out that I already see it.:rolleyes:
IWLN,
If you don’t buy everything the Bible said about Jesus, why buy any at all?
I miss the good old days when I could just pass off the hard questions, confident that the answers didn’t matter, as long as I had faith. I feel really certain, convicted, that the crucifixion and resurrection really took place. That part of my religious education was so emphasized that it makes it hard to know the difference between thorough and constant teaching and my own conviction. Out of all of the beliefs that I pretty much tossed out recently, he just refused to leave. But, here’s the part where I really get to sound wacko. Thanks Urban Ranger for making wacko possible. Along with my really strong “gut” feeling, I am also going by personal experience in which Jesus was one of the participants. I’ve only really brought it up at SDMB, in detail once. The unbiased opinion was that I was delusional, had a hallucination, was fantasizing or I was just plain mistaken. I don’t believe I’m any of those things, but of course there is always that chance and I understood why that conclusion made for sense for many people. So I’m going by deep conviction and a some one on one “trinity time”. I’m still puzzled by why it happened. I’m not exactly pious, in case you hadn’t noticed. .:rolleyes: Anyway, I was doing such a good job at being rational and now I’m not. I really do believe he exists though.
-Actually, as I recall, God apparently caused his Nephew to stop by right when Poly was having a heart attack, the nephew was able to summon the authorities and so Poly was saved.
Of such common, mortal, human events a belief in an Almighty is forged.
It was interesting to note, however, that shortly before Poly and I argued that point, there was a news article online which told of a man who had apparently driven himself home, parked in his garage, and died of a heart attack. His body was not found for something like three weeks.
I asked Polycarp why he felt God “saved” him, but allowed this other man to die- and not only die, but remain unfound for weeks, presumably causing something of a mess and, I’m sure, no little distress on any relatives.
I seem to recall the answer was a vague allusion that, when you boiled it down, was another way of saying “God works in mysterious ways”- which is, of course, another way of saying I have no idea.
-Can something be “accurate” but not “correct”? Can it be correct but not accurate?
I suppose a stopped watch, when viewed at the exact time indicated, can be correct, although not accurate.
I suppose it’s also possible that the Bible could be “correct” in describing the Crucifixion, but not “accurate” in that it adds a measure of the supernatural to an otherwise-normal event.
-To a limited extent, I agree.
Religion is indeed arrogant; Each believer’s religion is the One True Way, all those who do not believe that particular brands are Condemned To Burn.
The hubris.
I note yet again our friend SB has neither returned nor addressed that already-thrice-asked question. Perhaps he is simply doing a bit of research and will no doubt shortly grace us with a carefully-selected Bible quote.
I don’t think these events necessarily create a belief in God. If you already believe in God, you just automatically give him gratitude. Being raised well, my first response when something good or defining happens is to thank someone. It’s almost a reflex and pretty soon it’s easy to feel like God is connected to literally everything that happens. I’m guilty of it, even though if I were honest with myself I would have to admit that I don’t believe he’s particularly involved with us right now. It’s nice to believe that God thinks I’m worth making good things happen. That kind of circular reasoning is emotionally very profitable. And very dumb.
That answer used to really frustrate me when I was young and wanted to know things like how did Noah get all those animals on there and when Cain was sent away, it talks about him coming across other people. Where did they come from? I never got answers, so pretty soon I just kind of took up that mantra myself.
Let me try again. Mankind is on a treasure hunt. They all know where the treasure is, but they’re all taking separate vehicles and going different directions to get to the same place. The destination is correct, but the trip itself may not be accurate for everyone.
Or it can be correct including the ressurection, but be incorrect about the meaning. And yes it could be not accurate about the supernatural, but I don’t think so. I’m hanging on to this belief for now. I don’t have enough left to spare. Rising from the dead only happened a couple of times in the Bible AFAIK, so it wasn’t a common theme used by writers to spice the story up.
I like limited, it’s so much better than you’re out of your freakin’ mind.
There are a few religions that are somewhat tolerant of others, but still believe they will somehow be favored because of their choice. I have never and will never understand how someone can decide that millions are going to die and spend eternity in hell and be smug and self-righteous about it. I don’t believe it’s true, but if I did it would be impossible for me to ever be content. It would be like knowing the WTC was going down and not be able to stop it, over and over again. I vote no hell. We’ll unionize and negotiate.
I’m sure that’s what it is. I really wasn’t trying to make him go away. When I first got to SDMB I was definitely baptized with fire and most of me lived through it.:eek:
Personal experience requires a context and sometimes interpretation. Now, this particular personal experience of yours involving Jesus of Nazareth seems to require a context of Christianity, which is largely based on the bible (okay, not all orthodox doctrines can be found in the bible, but I do not want to address it here - too many cans of worms are open already ;)). Without such a context and the interpretation provided by the bible, your personal experience would be meaningless.
So the difficult question is, how do you decide which part of the bible to keep, considering that there is no external reference you can use?
I think the fact that my personal experience required a context is exactly why I saw what I did. Oddly I remember just knowing that this was the only way I could actually see God. I think that if I had been another religion or had a different context; that is what I would have seen. Jesus wasn’t exactly important to the “event”. Look, I just alienated some more Christians. He was sort of like the flag you see moved, by the wind you can’t see blowing. Sorry, I think when I fired Christianity, a little Budhist or something snuck in. And AFAIK there are no pictures of Jesus, so it was a conclusion I jumped to, then realized it was only sort of right. The thing is, the whole died for our sins could be right and still not carry the same global disaster for those who don’t or never knew it. I believe we loosely recorded the actual history right, but what it was for and what it meant got somehow lost. But I don’t know. If none of the Bible were true, then would that mean that my personal experience wasn’t true? I don’t know. I still feel really sure of God, but not so sure of me.
I don’t know. I have favorite parts, I’d like to keep those. Oh and the nice parts. :eek: I really don’t know. There is no real way to know and I wonder how important it really is. It was easier to be a naive Christian. Now I’m struggling and I wasn’t before. I used to think I had all of the important answers.
Your two questions:
- Yes unjust things bother me. That seems inherent in applying the word unjust, that it bothers you.
- I try to change things I can, and also some I’m pretty sure I can’t. Don’t mind voting Green Party even if the vote seems not to be counted. And I did run on the Green ticket, producing positon papers that sort of got absorbed or at least considered by the main contenders.
Being an atheist, I cannot blame god for anything. Being that the world believes in god, whom I scorn, I tend to just hate the world for being unjust.
I know the difference between me screwing up and someone else screwing up, so let’s forget the possibility of my own shortcomings as a scapegoat, just realize that I am coming from something not created by me.
Let’s say I’m better then someone at something, and that myself, the person, and someone hiring us for a related job all know this fact. Let’s also pretend that this other guy going for the job is friends with the boss and has only slightly less experiance and aptitude in the field. Despite that I could be better and more efficient, the boss hires his friend instead. I would therefore blame the injustice on human nature. It is in human nature to give people you like, or are better aquainted with, a better position then a complete stranger. I delt with Bush becoming president using this logic. I said to myself “People know another candidate would have done a better job, but because they had seen Bush’s father in office before, they feel his son could do a good job.” Now we have another president who can’t pronounce half the words in the english language. I was ashamed, but I had a scapegoat, the fact that it is “just that way”.
Human nature is also inclined to believing in a higher power, which is how I deal with having a christian girlfriend. It’s just how she’s been conditioned and told, and it’s her way of dealing with the screwed up parts of the world. My way is in blaming something else I can’t see or feel, or prove, for that matter. I guess in a way, atheists and devout christians are sortof similair. We both have scapegoats we can’t really say are real. (WARNING: NASTY GENERALIZATION) You guys just hang us for feeling our way. ^.^
It’s in my nature to say nasties when I’m done making my point:smack:
Okay, how do you scorn God, when you think he doesn’t exist? I agree with you that we all have scapegoats or things to lay blame on. We are similar there. But our scapegoat isn’t God, we only give him credit for the good, never the bad. That’s something that you, as a good atheist, is supposed to give us hell for. That’s real injustice. Us always having an excuse for God. Come on man, if you want to be an atheist, you’re going to have to work on those nasty generalizations. Those are my favorite part and I even agree with a lot of them. (okay, since he’s new, I guess I should tell him I’m mostly teasing, except for the parts I’m serious about) Sorry, I was talking to something I can’t see or feel or prove.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Doc Nickel *
**My original reply stated, quite clearly I thought, that nature, Reality, the Universe, having no consciousness, no sentience, has no, and cannot have, any morals, opinions, emotions or sense of “justice”. It is wholly neutral and impartial.
Your quote is a mouthfull and while I cannot challenge your sincerity I do challenge the accuracy and truth of the statement. I am not debating the matter with you as I can not and would not if I could, prove otherwise. I am only saying that the universe in all of its complexity, hidden aspects and all that stuff we (at lease me) just don’t know about, but perhaps consider and think about occasionally, you know, is such that I would really like to know how you state with such casuall assurance that what you say has substantive validity, verification or proof. I don’t need the whole litany, but allegorically speaking, where did you go to school? :dubious
Aww, I’m a noob again 
(Frequents video game forums)
I scorn the “god” that other people warship, despite the fact that I don’t believe in him. In someone else’s personal reality, that figure exists and I dislike (hate is a strong word) the fact that it does.
I always thought that “god damnit” and “WHY DID YOU MAKE MY LIFE LIKE THIS” were bad things blamed on god or putting him in direct confrontation with the problem. hm…
Am I supposed to give you hell for not blaming your mistakes on god? Sorry maybe I read the post wrong…
I don’t want to get banned off the board for the more stinging nasty generalizations I have, you know?