# Atheists turning Religious **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 30, 2003, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-turning-religious/151508 "2003-01-30T03:01:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kelsonk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/df705f/32.png) [@Kelsonk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelsonk)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-turning-religious/151508/1 "2003-01-30T03:01:22Z")
A question to all the atheists. Assuming there is a God, what would have to occur for you to suddenly turn religious or believe in him? (I’m not trying to be a smart ass or convert you or anything, I’m just curious) ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-turning-religious/151508/2 "2003-01-30T03:22:41Z")
This depends on what sort of God exists. I mean, in order to believe in a God that does X, I’d first have to be convinced that X happens at all, and then be convinced that God’s existence is the best explanation for X. Believers of various gods assert various values of X, from the somewhat vague (“performs miracles”) to the more precise (“was born of a virgin, part of a Triune, performed miracles A, B, and C, etc.”). Since X varies greatly, the evidence to convince me may be very different in any given case. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-turning-religious/151508/3 "2003-01-30T03:39:29Z")
Why is it always a god, never a goddess? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-turning-religious/151508/4 "2003-01-30T03:39:55Z")
I don’t know, but then again I don’t have to know. If such a being existed, she/he/it would _know_ exactly what it would take for me to believe that such a being existed. Of course various Christians over the years have told me that their god has given me plenty of signs thoughout the years, but I have to respond that a being that is supposedly superintelligent wouldn’t be so dumb as to hold up a big sign printed in Swahili saying “Here I am!” if he knew that I only spoke Russian. ---
**Author:** ![j\_kat\_251](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71c47a/32.png) [@j\_kat\_251](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j_kat_251)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-turning-religious/151508/5 "2003-01-30T03:41:03Z")
Well, for me to totally and immediately accept your benevolent God, the first thing you have to do is come knocking on my door selling him to me. Seriously, not much short of a miracle (read: amazing set of circumstances that beat astronomical odds - like that Russian chick who survived leaping out of a plane) would convince me. ---
**Author:** ![DaddyMack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dc4da7/32.png) [@DaddyMack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaddyMack)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-turning-religious/151508/6 "2003-01-30T03:56:52Z")
If he/she wins the Randi 1 million dollar prize. > **[Home](https://web.randi.org)** > > JREF ---
**Author:** ![coosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@coosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coosa)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-turning-religious/151508/7 "2003-01-30T04:20:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kelsonk \* > \*\*A question to all the atheists. Assuming there is a God, what would have to occur for you to suddenly turn religious or believe in him? (I’m not trying to be a smart ass or convert you or anything, I’m just curious) \*\* Hmm . . . serious mental illness? Or physical brain damage; either one might do it. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-turning-religious/151508/8 "2003-01-30T04:42:54Z")
To believe in this God, all that would have to happen is that he, she or it would become as evident as it was in Genesis and Exodus. Not too much to ask, right? Notice how in the later, more historical, books of the Bible, God supposedly causes things to happen that need no such explanation. The bad king loses? Goddidit. The good king wins? Goddidit? The bad king wins? Goddidit, but next time he’s going to do something for sure. The good, holy, king loses and is horribly killed? Goddidit, because the king’s grandfather was naughty. As for worshipping it - it depends on what kind of god it is. If it is the god who drowned millions, forget it. ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-turning-religious/151508/9 "2003-01-30T04:52:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rushgeekgirl \* > \*\*Why is it always a god, never a goddess? \*\* It’s quite often been a goddess, or at least a “female” persona. Plenty of females in the GrecoRoman pantheon, all around the Mediterannean in fact IIRC. I believe a couple prominent Hindu deities are characterized as “female” as well, though I’ve never read the _Bhagavad Vita_ or whatever it is, so don’t quote me on it. With the risk of going way into tangent-land, I suspect that because tradition in _most_ of the world saw male figures as protecters, the tendency in monotheistic religions was to conceptualize a god as male because they believe he looks out for them and protects them. The other easy equivalent is to the local lord. In theory he protected the residents of the area, he was a man, so god too must be “male” because he fills a similiar role. It’s not so much that the god has a penis, but that he fills a role traditionally associated with male figures. The roles defined god’s gender, not the other way around. And if it turned out the supreme deity _were_ a goddess, you can count this atheist out. I have enough problems relating with regular women, I don’t need to deal with an allpowerful one, that’s just frightening 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ataraxy22](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ataraxy22/32/307_2.png) [@ataraxy22](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ataraxy22)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-turning-religious/151508/10 "2003-01-30T06:44:38Z")
Why does this presupposed god have to have any gender at all. I mean, especially in a monotheistic religion, what’s the point? ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-turning-religious/151508/11 "2003-01-30T08:29:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kelsonk \* > **A question to all the atheists. Assuming there is a God, what would have to occur for you to suddenly turn religious or believe in him?** Objective evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-turning-religious/151508/12 "2003-01-30T10:25:25Z")
If there were good evidence, I would believe, but I probably wouldn’t care other than from the perspective of intellectual curiosity. That is, knowing there would be a God wouldn’t make me religious. If I believed there were some important and efficacious moral reason for caring about what God is thinking or wants, I would certainly care. I’m not sure whether that would make me religious or not either. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-turning-religious/151508/13 "2003-01-30T10:40:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blowero \* > \*\*Objective evidence. \*\* What would that be, exactly? Can you give an example? ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-turning-religious/151508/14 "2003-01-30T11:17:12Z")
Nothing could change my mind, except a literal _changing of my mind_ by an external force. My _choice_, my _preference_, would be to believe that any “evidence”, no matter how objective, was merely the result of a technologically advanced operation to create such phenomena directly in my brain (“aliens doing a Matrix”, if you will), which would still not require any supernatural or divine entity. Of course, if they had the ability to delve into my mind to that extent, then it is certainly not impossible that they could simply make me believe I had wilfully given myself over to God, when in fact I had been coerced. ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-turning-religious/151508/15 "2003-01-30T11:21:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \ > \*\*What would that be, exactly? Can you give an example? \*\* The sole mechanism for discovering truth about the world is reason. So you better hope that there’s “objective evidence” out there to be found, or else you’ve been wasting your life with this theism stuff. Maybe you yourself could favor us with some example (that isn’t in the form of “possible worlds”, actual ones only) of the objective evidence available that led you to _your_ conclusion? Just a thought, friend. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-turning-religious/151508/16 "2003-01-30T11:28:01Z")
But you wouldn’t believe me. Speaking of reason, if Mr. Jones visited me, I would hold that as objective evidence that Mr. Jones exists. But because he has not (yet) visited you, you [deny his existence](http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html#antecedent). I think SentientMeat’s take is at least intellectually defensible. He isn’t quite sure whether Mr. Jones visited him or whether he hallucinated the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-turning-religious/151508/17 "2003-01-30T11:30:08Z")
Actually, two friends of mine did turn from being atheists to being religious, specifically Wicccan. The male half of this couple is a science fiction writer. He was working on a novel in which tarot cards were a key part of the plot, so he started researching them and doing spreads. Now, this man is a Mensan and is fully aware of the laws of probability. What threw him was the cards that were turning up were on the fringes of probability, with very few nice, normal distributions. Once or twice might have been dismissed as sheer luck, but this happened on a consistent basis. This led to him and his wife looking into this even further, and as a result, they are now quite active Wiccans. As he puts it, when he first joined Mensa, he used to see people giving tarot readings and wonder “How could any intelligent person believe that?!” Now, he’s the person doing it. :rolleyes: Basically, what stopped him being an Atheist is the universe basically whacked him upside the head with evidence he could not ignore that something outside the bonds of logic exists. I’ve read the book which was the cause of all this, by the way, and it’s a good read in its own right. CJ ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-turning-religious/151508/18 "2003-01-30T11:43:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*But you wouldn’t believe me. > > Speaking of reason, if Mr. Jones visited me, I would hold that as objective evidence that Mr. Jones exists. But because he has not (yet) visited you, you [deny his existence](http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html#antecedent). > > \*\* I assume this is an analogy about god visiting you, and personal religious experience? The mechanism by which Mr. Jones visits you is one that is similiar to experiences I myself have had. He shows up on your doorstep? I’ve had people show up on mine. He stops by your study cube at the library? I’ve had people stop by mine. His visit to you is on terms conceivable by me, by virtue of my past experiences. OTOH, if god visits you, he isn’t exactly knocking on your door. Experientially, the visit to you by god is nothing at all like anything that I or many others have experienced, and therefore we are justified in being less quick to simply take your word for it. I don’t consider you a liar, as liars are the worst of all men and you are certainly not that. But…I think your assertion of god visiting you would actually be so far removed from describable events as to be considered a gibberish assertion, and as the logical positivists would say, it has no truth value. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-turning-religious/151508/19 "2003-01-30T13:37:45Z")
If you say that God visited you, I would have some questions. What did he look like? How tall was he? If he had no physical body, how did you know in which direction to look when you talked to him? What did he sound like? What were his exact words? You see, these are questions that can be answered, and varified, if Mr. Jones comes for a visit. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-turning-religious/151508/20 "2003-01-30T13:38:55Z")
Turning religious is quite a different thing than belief. I’m a Deist, which means I don’t believe in a personal God and have discovered I have much more in common with atheists than most theists. I’m also Unitarian - which means I go to church (on occation)- so I’m sort of religious in my own way. But I certainly don’t believe in a God who needs or wishes to be worshipped - my religiosity is for myself and my community alone, not for any Big Guy in the Sky who likes to be sung to. You’ll find religious non-believers and believing non-religious in this world - and both kinds on the Dope. And shades of belief from hard atheist through Fundamentalist Christian. Belief isn’t (necessarily) an off on switch. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-turning-religious/151508.md?page=2)