# Atheists: What do you teach your children about religion **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 24, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-do-you-teach-your-children-about-religion/537225 "2010-04-24T17:48:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-do-you-teach-your-children-about-religion/537225/41 "2010-04-28T09:56:17Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I teach them to argue that religion is wrong/silly/mistaken > > As an atheist, I consider religion to be wrong. Why would I teach my child something I believe to be wrong? Simply because of tradition? Hell no I won’t let them just figure it out for themselves, that is an insult to my beliefs. Would I tell my child to learn the multiplication table for themselves, or long division? Would I tell them that the sun is a fiery chariot towing a god? None of these things are factual, yet I’m expected by many people to simply let the child figure it out? No way in hell am I doing that. To me, that would be almost like child abuse Yet I imagine you’re opposed to religious people teaching their children what they “know” to be right regarding religion? I’m not a parent but if I were to have children I’d definitely bring them up to feel free to make up their own minds (as I was), whilst making clear that my lack of faith/belief is based on an absence of evidence rather than it simply being what I was brought up to think. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-do-you-teach-your-children-about-religion/537225/42 "2010-04-28T20:09:01Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > Yet I imagine you’re opposed to religious people teaching their children what they “know” to be right regarding religion? Yes, because relgion is factually incorrect and easily proven. People just refuse to accept it due to momentum and their own fear of the unknown. There is no equivalent here. It’s not “I want to teach my child my _version_.” I want to teach my child facts. Real things. Religion is not one of those things, no matter how much religionists want to claim it is. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-do-you-teach-your-children-about-religion/537225/43 "2010-04-28T20:16:04Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Yes, because relgion is factually incorrect and easily proven. People just refuse to accept it due to momentum and their own fear of the unknown. There is no equivalent here. It’s not “I want to teach my child my _version_.” I want to teach my child facts. Real things. Religion is not one of those things, no matter how much religionists want to claim it is. It’s better to teach the kids the method of skepticism and rational inquiry, and have them figure this out on their own. The world is filled with folks who think they are right and everyone else is full of shit. Simply teaching them the conclusion, without the _techniques_ of rationalism, isn’t a good solution. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-do-you-teach-your-children-about-religion/537225/44 "2010-04-28T21:51:50Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Yes, because relgion is factually incorrect and easily proven. People just refuse to accept it due to momentum and their own fear of the unknown. There is no equivalent here. It’s not “I want to teach my child my _version_.” I want to teach my child facts. Real things. Religion is not one of those things, no matter how much religionists want to claim it is. I don’t actually disagree with you, it’s just that the way you described your approach sounds as dogmatic as that taken by religionists. I’m just picturing one of your children saying “But what if there is a god? We don’t know for sure…” and you screaming “I CAST THEE OUT!!!” at them. Personally I prefer the skeptical inquiry path if only because it let’s people come to the same conclusion without feeling like they were made to. But hey, they’re your kids. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-do-you-teach-your-children-about-religion/537225/45 "2010-05-01T03:14:54Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > It’s better to teach the kids the method of skepticism and rational inquiry, and have them figure this out on their own. > > The world is filled with folks who think they are right and everyone else is full of shit. Simply teaching them the conclusion, without the _techniques_ of rationalism, isn’t a good solution. > [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > I don’t actually disagree with you, it’s just that the way you described your approach sounds as dogmatic as that taken by religionists. I’m just picturing one of your children saying “But what if there is a god? We don’t know for sure…” and you screaming “I CAST THEE OUT!!!” at them. > > Personally I prefer the skeptical inquiry path if only because it let’s people come to the same conclusion without feeling like they were made to. But hey, they’re your kids. I understand what you guys are saying, really I do. But at what point do you cast aside worries of looking evenhanded and actually be factual? If you are teaching, you don’t give all sides equal representation if one side is wrong. This seemingly incessant need to not look as bad as the other side is hindering your ability to actually be correct! It’s cool that we don’t want to be seen as the insane fundies that we are generally against, but it is not cool that in order to not emulate them, we harm our own beliefs in order to do it. I’m not going to scream at my kids like a fundie if they question atheism. I plan on teaching them reasoning and logic and applying a healthy skepicism to everything, especially religion. I’ll highlight religion’s numerous hypocrisies and contradictions, talk to them about the issue of faith and introduce them to the FSM. But if they start believing in religion, I’m going to ask them to prove it. Since that is impossible, their child-logic won’t hold up. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-do-you-teach-your-children-about-religion/537225/46 "2010-05-01T05:31:43Z")
And if they decide to believe anyways? ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-do-you-teach-your-children-about-religion/537225/47 "2010-05-01T08:40:00Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > If you are teaching, you don’t give all sides equal representation if one side is wrong. That’s absolutely true, and again I agree with your position, it just seemed you were saying you wouldn’t give them any opposing viewpoint, even along the lines of “some people think this and their reasoning is this, however as I will now demonstrate to you why it isn’t very good reasoning”. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > And if they decide to believe anyways? This is what I want to know too. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-do-you-teach-your-children-about-religion/537225/48 "2010-05-01T09:35:38Z")
I wish there was the possibility of choosing two answers in this poll. I teach my children that they will have to figure it out for themselves, _and_ that the important thing is that whatever they believe, they can defend it. Our teenage son, raised by two atheists, chose to be baptized and confirmed as a Christian (subtype Lutheran). That was his choice and he was able to explain his reasons to us, so that we understood that he chose for his own reasons and not because “everybody else” was getting confirmed. I’m not saying we were thrilled, but we accept it. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-do-you-teach-your-children-about-religion/537225/49 "2010-05-01T11:21:17Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > And if they decide to believe anyways? Make them give back all their tooth fairy money. 😃 If my kids want to believe in the Magical Sky Wizard and pray to it for Services, that’s fine and dandy. The chances of actually receiving an answered prayer are about the same as say, not praying for whatever it is in the first place. If they start hearing Jesus personally talk to them, they are going in for an eval for mental issues. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-do-you-teach-your-children-about-religion/537225/50 "2010-05-01T11:54:03Z")
> [@davekhps](#): > > I’m an atheist, potential mom-to-be (someday) is probably more agnostic. > > If/when we have children, I’d like them to go to religious school, or public school with CCD. I was born and raised Catholic, and I think the exposure is very good for children. There’s a large world out there, with many different beliefs, and I’d want my children to be exposed to them. > > I don’t fear having kids grow up to believe things differently than me. That’s what kids are for, no? Well that’s not what the Catholics believe! They are in the business of life long indoctrination! Though I never INSISTED my child have the same thoughts as me, I did want him to have similar thoughts to me as a little child. (once he had grown up he could worship a turnip if that was what hypnotised him). I was (am) an atheist, New Zealand has a weird thing called “bible in school”, schools (and students) can opt out of it and it is only 30 mins once a week. I originaly gave my permission for my son to attend but after a few weeks at school we had this converstion. “Did you know god made the world”. “Yep lots of people think that”. I answered “Do you?” he asked. “No I don’t but lots of people do” “well you are wrong!” he replied. He was five years old. I took him out of bible in school the next day. It wasn’t that I didn’t want to expose him to religion at all (I opted him in after all), I just didn’t want my 5 yr old being told by complete strangers at school that I was wrong and they were right. When he was 8 or 9 he made friends with some kids who went to a a local Babtist church. They had a kids club thing on Friday nights. My son merrily attended that for about four years and on several occassions went to church on a Sunday (bring a friend to church). He even went on camp with them and had a great time. He is 18 now and in his first year of university and is (annoyingly…very vocal!) an atheist. Richard Dawkins is his hero and he quotes him ALL THE BLOODY TIME! So he ended up sharing my lack of belief but I would have loved him just as much if the Baptists had won him over. I just think that when your children are very young YOUR beliefs should be more important then a church you don’t believe in. If you genuinely are a non believer sending your children to a Catholic school might be confusing to them. Surely that is how churches operate (and atheists , if you use my example). If you get them young you have them for ever…even as only a lapsed ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-do-you-teach-your-children-about-religion/537225/51 "2010-05-01T19:42:02Z")
> [@Shirley\_Ujest](#): > > Make them give back all their tooth fairy money. 😃 > > If my kids want to believe in the Magical Sky Wizard and pray to it for Services, that’s fine and dandy. Now that’s just stupid – it’s the Magical Skyy _Pixie_. Get it right, would you? -raised Catholic, now just a plain theist. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-do-you-teach-your-children-about-religion/537225/52 "2010-05-02T21:35:42Z")
> [@Elret](#): > > If someone asks us what religion we are, my standard answer (to strangers or people who don’t seem like they’d be up for some interesting conversation) is “We’re not really religious.” > [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > My approach wouldn’t really fit any of the poll options, although is closest to ‘let them figure it out’ - but that sounds like you’re just leaving them to it with no input whatsoever. > > (…) whenever I’m asked I try and state the facts dispassionately. For example; Hindus believe in reincarnation, Muslims believe Mohammed was a prophet, etc. These are just statements of fact without condoning or condemning, but still allows the mind to be made up. > > But I would emphasise the importance of rational and critical thinking and champion the scientific method, as well as dissuading them from blind credulity. Those are my strategies as well. We live in St. Louis. When my daughter asked about religion, I’d generally say that throughout the world and throughout history people have worshiped different gods and really there was no good evidence for any of their beliefs. However, many people --MLK Jr., Gandhi,some of her aunts and uncles) have been motivated by their religion to do good things for the world. In her early teens there were a couple of times when she mentioned that a friend was bothered by her lack of religion. But she apparently worked things out, because she stayed remained friends with those girls. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-do-you-teach-your-children-about-religion/537225/53 "2010-05-03T16:03:48Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > And if they decide to believe anyways? Then they should be prepared to defend it. Kids believe stupid things. Santa, the Tooth Fairy, etc. Applying rigorous logic to religious beliefs should result in nothing different than a kid growing up and stop believing in made up fantasy creatures. The difference is, with religion, there are billions of people who continue to tell you those things are true. Let’s say this is a small child, around 10 or under. I would treat his beliefs the same as if my kid believed that drugs were good for you, or that it’s fun to kill small animals. It is a wrong belief that is harmful and sustained by continuous contact with negative influences. I would do the same thing if my child hung out with a bad kid that gave him drugs: remove him from the influence. If it’s a churchy friend, I would tell him he can’t hang out with him anymore, and when he’s home, I would talk to him about the bad influences and why they’re wrong An older kid like a teenager understands reason more, even if they are not equipped to trust their parent. It would be easier to argue with a teenager because they can rebel all they want, but they can’t willingly shut off their mind to reason; they just choose to ignore it. How I would deal with a teenager is to talk to him and debate him on why he believes in religion. I have no doubt that he cannot defend it through reason. It may frustrate him, it may make him mad, but since I consider religion an evil, I wouldn’t just think to let it go. Would a parent simply ignore a child who is doing drugs or smoking or in a gang simply because he will not listen to reason? Even though talking to him might drive him away? Hell no! I would apply that same standard to religion: reason with him, ground him if necessary, but make my wishes clear that it is not ok to believe in religion and its specious arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-do-you-teach-your-children-about-religion/537225/54 "2010-05-03T19:43:40Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > An older kid like a teenager understands reason more, even if they are not equipped to trust their parent. It would be easier to argue with a teenager because they can rebel all they want, but they can’t willingly shut off their mind to reason; they just choose to ignore it. How I would deal with a teenager is to talk to him and debate him on why he believes in religion. I have no doubt that he cannot defend it through reason. It may frustrate him, it may make him mad, but since I consider religion an evil, I wouldn’t just think to let it go. Would a parent simply ignore a child who is doing drugs or smoking or in a gang simply because he will not listen to reason? Even though talking to him might drive him away? Hell no! I would apply that same standard to religion: reason with him, **ground him if necessary** , but make my wishes clear that it is not ok to believe in religion and its specious arguments. I hope you are very clear in understanding that the bolded part is not going to work any more than I stopped going places with my friends on lunch break from band camp (since “riding in a car with a fellow teen without prior permission” was a grounding offense in my household.) All the rationality and punishment in the world will not stop a teen determined to rebel against you in something like this, nor will it cause him to come to his senses when he’s in his 20s. Frankly, your brand of atheism is sounding just as iffy as many religions, in the “social control” and “early indoctrination” senses. Full disclosure–I’m Buddhist. My parents tried to punish me for not being Catholic enough and look what happened. =P ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-do-you-teach-your-children-about-religion/537225/55 "2010-05-03T19:56:14Z")
Wait – so if your child won’t even allowed to be _friends_ with children who aren’t atheists? :rolleyes: Dude, you don’t have issues – you have a lifetime subscription! For that reason, I so hope your kid decides to become a Buddhist or a Unitarian. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-do-you-teach-your-children-about-religion/537225/56 "2010-05-03T19:58:36Z")
Atheist here. I teach it to them just as I would any other mythology. Too bad that wasn’t one of the poll options. I teach them to be wary of discussing their religious opinions with others because people have been persecuted (frequently by those who profess to follow Jesus’ teachings of peace and tolerance) for thinking differently. I teach them it is wrong to ridicule believers. I want them to decide for themselves what they believe, but I have no compunction about using the bible to help them exercise their critical thinking skills. And I teach them to use reason to defend their beliefs about gods, politics, math, Santa Claus, etc. Whether or not one is a believer, the Judeo/Christian religions are a huge part of our culture. To grow up ignorant of their teachings is like growing up not knowing how to drive or what a supermarket is. You can’t get the full meaning of most literature or movies without at least knowing some references, and you will fail to understand what motivates an enormous segment of the population. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-do-you-teach-your-children-about-religion/537225/57 "2010-05-03T21:15:17Z")
> [@calm\_kiwi](#): > > Well that’s not what the Catholics believe! They are in the business of life long indoctrination! Tell the Jesuits that. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-do-you-teach-your-children-about-religion/537225/58 "2010-05-03T21:59:36Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I hope you are very clear in understanding that the bolded part is not going to work any more than I stopped going places with my friends on lunch break from band camp (since “riding in a car with a fellow teen without prior permission” was a grounding offense in my household.) All the rationality and punishment in the world will not stop a teen determined to rebel against you in something like this, nor will it cause him to come to his senses when he’s in his 20s. Like I said, I consider religious influence to be as bad as doing drugs. If you had a teenager who was doing drugs and wouldn’t listen to you, wouldn’t you ground him, even knowing he will try to break out? Better that that throwing up your hands and allowing it. > [@Zeriel](#): > > Frankly, your brand of atheism is sounding just as iffy as many religions, in the “social control” and “early indoctrination” senses. But as I’ve said before, the biggest difference between my atheism and religion is that atheism is correct. It is support by facts, its empirical, observable, and provable. If a teacher insisted on teaching your child that 2 + 2 = 5, and would not stop, wouldn’t you protest to the school? Wouldn’t you try to get him fired? What I’m doing is no different than if someone was purposefully teaching my kids something evil and wrong > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Wait – so if your child won’t even allowed to be _friends_ with children who aren’t atheists? :rolleyes: > > Dude, you don’t have issues – you have a lifetime subscription! > For that reason, I so hope your kid decides to become a Buddhist or a Unitarian. I don’t care if they have friends who are religious, but they should try to keep their influence to a minimum. Just as I’m sure that some of my kids’ friends probably did drugs, I wouldn’t speak up as a parent unless it is having a negative effect on my child. I don’t mind Buddhists all that much. Of all the major religions, I find them to be the most enlightened, nice, and least pushy. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-do-you-teach-your-children-about-religion/537225/59 "2010-05-04T00:05:30Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Like I said, I consider religious influence to be as bad as doing drugs. If you had a teenager who was doing drugs and wouldn’t listen to you, wouldn’t you ground him, even knowing he will try to break out? Better that that throwing up your hands and allowing it. > > But as I’ve said before, the biggest difference between my atheism and religion is that atheism is correct. It is support by facts, its empirical, observable, and **provable**. If a teacher insisted on teaching your child that 2 + 2 = 5, and would not stop, wouldn’t you protest to the school? Wouldn’t you try to get him fired? What I’m doing is no different than if someone was purposefully teaching my kids something evil and wrong That’s just it, though. “Provable” in the context is pretty nebulous–it’d be hard/impossible to disprove Buddhism or Deism, for example–out of curiosity, would you accept that as a logical defense? ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-do-you-teach-your-children-about-religion/537225/60 "2010-05-04T06:05:05Z")
I’m following this thread with great interest, as I really want my kids to decide for themselves without feeling pressure from peers, teachers, or parents. My kids go to a Methodist preschool, so they learn about God and Jesus. My daughter often talks about how her actions are pleasing or displeasing to God. About a dozen families from my former religion keep trying to persuade me to bring the kids to church, or at least let someone pick them up on Sunday mornings. No thanks, I don’t need their young minds filled with ideas that atheists, agnostics, and apostates are vile sinners. But one way or another they need to learn morals. As a kid, I based my actions on the idea that God would reward or punish me. How is a child supposed to understand that we should be honest and charitable, just for the sake of honest and charity? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-do-you-teach-your-children-about-religion/537225.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-do-you-teach-your-children-about-religion/537225.md?page=4)