# Atheists: What would it take for you to believe? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 25, 2011, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-it-take-for-you-to-believe/600712 "2011-10-25T04:11:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-it-take-for-you-to-believe/600712/21 "2011-10-25T11:39:42Z")
To believe that the Christian god exists? If he was all he was cracked up to be, he would know exactly what it would take, even if I couldn’t articulate it. To believe _in_(to follow, have faith in and obey) him? A lobotomy. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-it-take-for-you-to-believe/600712/22 "2011-10-25T12:01:21Z")
Isn’t the whole concept of a deity not falsifiable, and therefore (at least in Popperian philosophy of science) anything that might be offered as proof of existence of a deity cannot be tested as such? Forgive me if I have muddled some concepts here - I was asleep through most of my philosophy of science classes. What I’m trying to say is that I think with any stunt designed to prove the existence of a deity to me, I would be much more likely to dismiss it as some other phenomenon. But I can’t know for sure how I would react - it’s a bit like asking how someone would react if their mother died, you can’t know for sure how it will affect you unless it has happened. And to all the people saying they wouldn’t worship a god even once convinced of their existence; if someone somehow convinced me they were omnipotent, I’m pretty sure I’d at least _try_ to be nice to them :). And wouldn’t I do what they want anyway, by definition? ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-it-take-for-you-to-believe/600712/23 "2011-10-25T12:20:31Z")
A while ago we did a thread on how to kill god. To determine that we had to come up with a decent description of a deity that did not rely on religious claims. We arrived at something like: \*A being that has a full understanding, and mastery of the laws of physics. \* Such a being could then prove itself by doing any number of public feats. I would certainly believe that it exists. Nothing however could convince me to worship it without demonstrable material gain in return. Of course, that is not faith though, that is just an easy job; or placating a capricious a powerful being who has abilities or technology we do not/ can not understand. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-it-take-for-you-to-believe/600712/24 "2011-10-25T12:40:57Z")
> [@nate](#): > > I guess I’d have to unknowingly lose my critical and logical thinking ability. I think I could easily be swayed to believe in a god then. This. And to the OP, assuming you believe in some deity, what would it take you to un-believe? ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-it-take-for-you-to-believe/600712/25 "2011-10-25T13:03:24Z")
I don’t know that I could be convinced by anything. I mean, even if this God brought my parents back to life before my eyes, how could I know it wasn’t just me being crazy? On the other hand, if I’m crazy and believe that God did just raise the dead, I guess I’d be happy and convinced that he/she exists. I just confused myself. Sorry OP, I don’t think I was much help. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-it-take-for-you-to-believe/600712/26 "2011-10-25T13:18:35Z")
> [@Scissorjack](#): > > Which God? There have been many. Exactly. Which god? Soculus, the impish god of missing socks and extremely small change? I would believe in him if he would just return my odd socks. The omnipotent God of the bible? It would take something extraordinary to make me believe in him, because the claim, that he is ALL powerful, is extraordinary. It might not take much to make me believe he exists but it will take a lot to make me believe he is a god, the only god and that he has power over all the universe. I would have a lot of questions. Is it common for Christians to think this way? That anyone who claims to be the one true God must be, without question? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-it-take-for-you-to-believe/600712/27 "2011-10-25T13:22:11Z")
If He would re-arrange a bunch of stars to spell out “I exist” for all the world to witness. That might do it. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-it-take-for-you-to-believe/600712/28 "2011-10-25T13:27:00Z")
I’m not a full atheist, I’m agnostic/weak atheist/whatever you want to call it. I don’t profess to know whether a God exists and so the default position is to not worship one. All a God would have to do is prove to me that he does exist. Actually appearing and doing some shit would go a long way to doing that. I was brought up Catholic, I can’t do it on “Faith” alone. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-it-take-for-you-to-believe/600712/29 "2011-10-25T13:31:10Z")
I would want a huge demonstration to every living thing on earth that God exists. I would prefer that s/he just make everyone on the planet instantly “know” there is a God and how s/he fits in the universe. ---
**Author:** ![BigDadWolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@BigDadWolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigDadWolf)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-it-take-for-you-to-believe/600712/30 "2011-10-25T13:31:22Z")
\*\*Atheists: What would it take for you to believe? \*\* Have God switch places with me so I can be God for a day and I’ll believe. Anything else could be dismissed as illusion, delusion, or advanced technology. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-it-take-for-you-to-believe/600712/31 "2011-10-25T13:35:36Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > Isn’t the whole concept of a deity not falsifiable Absolutely not. That’s just a nonsensical excuse people fall back on when their claims that their deity _is_ falsifiable fall short. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-it-take-for-you-to-believe/600712/32 "2011-10-25T13:41:20Z")
I’d want answers. Why do you let such horrible things happen? I don’t even follow tradition unless I can understand it and see there is a reason. And that would only be to believe in it, not to worship it, as others have said. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-it-take-for-you-to-believe/600712/33 "2011-10-25T13:43:45Z")
> [@AaronX](#): > > Suppose one day you have a vision, and it goes something like, “My child, I am real. What would you have me do for you to believe?” > > Demonstration that defies the laws of science? > Coherent theory about how the world works and where God fits into it? > Explanation about what God’s been doing and why there’s suffering in the world? Even most believers have never witnessed these things. Facts and beliefs are contextual. A sudden belief in God would contradict quite a few of my beliefs about the universe; I’d basically have to change into a different person. ---
**Author:** ![lynne-42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lynne-42/32/3138_2.png) [@lynne-42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynne-42)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-it-take-for-you-to-believe/600712/34 "2011-10-25T14:03:36Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > If He would re-arrange a bunch of stars to spell out “I exist” for all the world to witness. That might do it. A nice simple clear-cut demonstration which should be well within His/Her/Its skill set. Lots of people see it. Done. I’d be a believer. So I vote we set this as the challenge. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-it-take-for-you-to-believe/600712/35 "2011-10-25T14:18:27Z")
I don’t “believe” science … All knowledge is provisional … So there’s nothing that will induce me to “believe” in god. Come forward with verifiable, replicable evidence, and I might accept that you are a being with powers previously thought unlikely, but beyond that? Eh, do good and I’ll consider you good. Do bad and I won’t think highly of you. And by the way demanding that people worship you is not an act of good. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-it-take-for-you-to-believe/600712/36 "2011-10-25T14:21:49Z")
> [@AaronX](#): > > Suppose one day you have a vision, and it goes something like, “My child, I am real. What would you have me do for you to believe?” I think my response (assuming it wasn’t just making the mental note, “Damn, I better get a CAT scan and find out why I’m hallucinating”) would be “Aren’t you supposed to omnipotent? So why do you have to ask?” ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-it-take-for-you-to-believe/600712/37 "2011-10-25T14:22:28Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > **Believe in _what_,** _exactly_? I can see how there are _some_ definitions of god (“really powerful being with superpowers”, “energy being that exists in a higher dimension” etc) that I could be persuaded, with ample physical evidence, to believe existed. But you’ll _never_ get me to believe in the standard monotheist god, because that concept is completely nebulous and incoherent. I would have to not be myself to believe in that. I’d have to be severely brain-damaged, actually. > > And even if you _did_ get me to _believe_ in the existence of the “really powerful being etc” version, you’d _never_ get me to _worship_ (without torture or mind control), so there’s that… This. I mean, there have been people, flesh and blood humans who have declared themselves gods. Does the fact that I believe that Augustus Caesar existed mean I “believe in gods”? Would some alien that showed up and impressed primitive humans into worshiping it with displays of its advanced technology qualify as a god? And I’m _never_ going to willingly worship anything. ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-it-take-for-you-to-believe/600712/38 "2011-10-25T14:22:35Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > If He would re-arrange a bunch of stars to spell out “I exist” for all the world to witness. That might do it. In what language? > [@Floater](#): > > This. And to the OP, assuming you believe in some deity, what would it take you to un-believe? Good question, I’ll have to get back to you on that one. Maybe you should start a thread on that? > [@shiftless](#): > > Is it common for Christians to think this way? That anyone who claims to be the one true God must be, without question? I hope not, else Christianity wouldn’t be monotheistic? I’m not trying to preach to anyone by this thread, just wanted to hear people’s opinions. Actually I have a hypothesis: people can’t choose what they want to believe. Maybe it’s like free will. Many people of science have rejected new theories (heliocentrism, Newton’s laws of motion, quasicrystals…) we now know to be true, even when presented with evidence. It seems facts and logic aren’t enough to convince people. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-it-take-for-you-to-believe/600712/39 "2011-10-25T14:26:39Z")
The only way I’d be sure is if God forced me to believe, by just changing my mind without my consent. Anything else, and I could explain it by sufficiently advanced technology, trickery, deceit, self-delusion, or psychosis. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-it-take-for-you-to-believe/600712/40 "2011-10-25T14:32:05Z")
What would it take to convince you that Santa Claus was real? What would it take to convince you that Darth Vader was real? What would it take to convince you that Sauron or Gandalf was real? Quite a lot I bet - and all of those are far more plausible than any commonly believed version of God. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-it-take-for-you-to-believe/600712.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-it-take-for-you-to-believe/600712.md?page=3)