# Atheists. What would you accept as evidence of a divine creator? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 27, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-you-accept-as-evidence-of-a-divine-creator/487698 "2009-02-27T18:46:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-you-accept-as-evidence-of-a-divine-creator/487698/81 "2009-03-03T18:13:24Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > . . . Let him bring back to life every deceased person who was buried wearing a cross. . . I hope you’re including “and free them from their coffins,” there. 'Cause otherwise, ew. Also, if not, how would we know he’d done it? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-you-accept-as-evidence-of-a-divine-creator/487698/82 "2009-03-03T19:01:05Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > I hope you’re including “and free them from their coffins,” there. 'Cause otherwise, ew. Also, if not, how would we know he’d done it? Muffled thumping? ---
**Author:** ![dinoboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dinoboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dinoboy)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-you-accept-as-evidence-of-a-divine-creator/487698/83 "2009-03-03T19:02:24Z")
> [@napier](#): > > …isn’t choosing to believe something the same as pretending? If you know you chose to believe, doesn’t that mean you chose not to see the answer to a question as it was, and opted to pretend instead? **Bingo!** 😉 ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-you-accept-as-evidence-of-a-divine-creator/487698/84 "2009-03-03T20:57:45Z")
Why fart around? How about the classic big bearded guy in a white robe, 500 feet tall, hovering over major cities? I’m sort of serious here. Sensational claims require sensational proof. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-you-accept-as-evidence-of-a-divine-creator/487698/85 "2009-03-03T21:35:13Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > Why fart around? How about the classic big bearded guy in a white robe, 500 feet tall, hovering over major cities? I’m sort of serious here. Sensational claims require sensational proof. If he’s going to be towering over my city, I’d rather he wore white _pants_. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-you-accept-as-evidence-of-a-divine-creator/487698/86 "2009-03-03T21:45:10Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > If he’s going to be towering over my city, I’d rather he wore white _pants_. But then we wouldn’t be able to tell if he’s circumcised; surely an important theological question ! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-you-accept-as-evidence-of-a-divine-creator/487698/87 "2009-03-03T22:21:18Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > If he’s going to be towering over my city, I’d rather he wore white _pants_. > > Just sayin’. Behold the power of the Rod of God. (from NatLamps Not the Bible, more or less.) ---
**Author:** ![sweeteviljesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@sweeteviljesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweeteviljesus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-you-accept-as-evidence-of-a-divine-creator/487698/88 "2009-03-04T21:13:20Z")
For me, I would accept a guy who had a mortal wound which was healed. After all, who would be like him? Who could make war against him? Rob ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-you-accept-as-evidence-of-a-divine-creator/487698/89 "2009-03-04T21:15:22Z")
> [@sweeteviljesus](#): > > For me, I would accept a guy who had a mortal wound which was healed. After all, who would be like him? Who could make war against him? The Highlander, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-you-accept-as-evidence-of-a-divine-creator/487698/90 "2009-03-04T21:26:18Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The Highlander, of course. Or Wolverine. He’s a badass. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-you-accept-as-evidence-of-a-divine-creator/487698/91 "2009-03-04T21:29:44Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Muffled thumping? Isn’t Muffled Thumping a village in Gloustershire? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-you-accept-as-evidence-of-a-divine-creator/487698/92 "2009-03-04T21:36:20Z")
> [@sweeteviljesus](#): > > For me, I would accept a guy who had a mortal wound which was healed. After all, who would be like him? Who could make war against him? > > Rob Dude, everyone who has had open heart surgery has had a mortal wound which was healed. You don’t even ask that they be able to repeat the feat. If I were you I would stick out for somebody who can’t _be_ wounded. Even Wolverine might have trouble if filleted into small enough chunks. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-you-accept-as-evidence-of-a-divine-creator/487698/93 "2009-03-05T23:56:57Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > I hope you’re including “and free them from their coffins,” there. 'Cause otherwise, ew. Also, if not, how would we know he’d done it? Oooh, good point. Well, THEY’d know. You gotta start somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crown_Prince_of_Irony)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-you-accept-as-evidence-of-a-divine-creator/487698/94 "2009-03-06T00:15:27Z")
Here’s what I would accept as proof: If all those who spread messages of hatred and intolerance in god’s name (Ann Coulter, Pat Buchanan, the entire Phelps clan, Jerry Falwell, James Dobson, the list goes on) suddenly had the words “ **God Hates Bigots** ” appear indelibly on their foreheads. If this happened, I would believe that **a** god exists, and that he has a sense of humor - I still wouldn’t worship him, though. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-you-accept-as-evidence-of-a-divine-creator/487698/95 "2009-03-06T00:34:42Z")
Gravity is something that every single person on Earth believes in. It’s always present here on Earth, responds to every test we make of it and is completely independent of the observer’s personal beliefs. So God has his standard to live up to. It’s so simple to prove his existence, you start to wonder why he never does. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bites_when_provoked/32/18073_2.png) [@Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bites_When_Provoked)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-you-accept-as-evidence-of-a-divine-creator/487698/96 "2009-03-06T09:33:31Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > The traditional Abrahamic God could easily make everybody convinced he existed without doing anything else. He could just “make it so”. If he wanted to. > [@straggler](#): > > Without robbing us of free will in the process? How is it ‘free will’ if we’re not in possession of all the facts? Supposing there is a god, wouldn’t it make sense for him to at least make “God Exists” an undeniable framework on which to hang our behaviours? Anything else is just silly. If I were broke and stole bread to live because I wasn’t informed that Family Services had a food bank, how is that a ‘free will’ exercise? Given free will - and information! - I’d make the sensible decision to walk to Family Services instead. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-you-accept-as-evidence-of-a-divine-creator/487698/97 "2009-03-06T15:22:35Z")
God knows everything that ever was and will ever be. He knows what you will do. You have free will? Not logical. Sounds like we are programmed . He may as well skip the world and just punish the people he knows will be wrong doers and save himself a lot of trouble. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-you-accept-as-evidence-of-a-divine-creator/487698/98 "2009-03-06T17:21:14Z")
Gonzo, that’s such a slam-dunk argument against a prescient God that I can’t imagine it would have escaped the attention of any serious theologian. Surely no one thinks that God is omniscient about the future? Surely all the theologians have backed off to say that God is omniscient about the current state of the world, but doesn’t know what may happen in the future. Is that right? I know there are people who are always talking about God’s plan for them, but they’re just the ignorant rank and file theists. Do thoughtful ones believe that? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-you-accept-as-evidence-of-a-divine-creator/487698/99 "2009-03-06T17:37:20Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > God knows everything that ever was and will ever be. He knows what you will do. You have free will? Not logical. Sounds like we are programmed . He may as well skip the world and just punish the people he knows will be wrong doers and save himself a lot of trouble. Or he could have saved even more time and not bothered to create people he was going to program to be wrong-doers. Of course, that _would_ deprive him of the fun of punishing people. And **CurtC** , I have seriously heard rank-and-file theists argue that we are allowed to go through the motions of doing predestined evil to show us that we are actually deserving of the punishment. I don’t know if they heard this from a ‘theologian’ (do preachers count?), but this does present that fact that people have actually given this a little thought, and managed to apologize the problem away regardless. (Though it still doesn’t answer why he created people predestined to sin in the first place.) ---
**Author:** ![palindromemordnilap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/db5fbb/32.png) [@palindromemordnilap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/palindromemordnilap)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-you-accept-as-evidence-of-a-divine-creator/487698/100 "2009-03-06T18:26:52Z")
My sentient existence in a universe of unimaginable complexity is proof enough of God as a concept. What evidence would convince me that God cares about me in particular or humanity in general? God knows. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-you-accept-as-evidence-of-a-divine-creator/487698.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-what-would-you-accept-as-evidence-of-a-divine-creator/487698.md?page=6)