# Atheists, why debate christians? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 30, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681 "2011-08-30T21:49:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/21 "2011-08-30T23:28:56Z")
[Here](http://slithytovesandborogoves.blogspot.com/2010/06/why-do-atheists-talk-about-god.html) are my reasons, from my blog. They’re pretty similar to what others have already said. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/22 "2011-08-30T23:36:55Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > The technical term for the assertions in the second paragraph is _bullshit,_ methinks. You are welcome to think whatever you should like. > [@](#): > > I prefer to think that Christians have had different life experiences than I have which have led them to different conclusions. Surely. However, under no circumstances is it rational to believe in physics defying nonsense with no evidence. So, I’d call that delusional. Now I’m of course admitting that Christians are possibly right, but if they are, they are right completely by dumb luck. Since they chose their conclusions based on nothing but which cult leader got to them first. > [@](#): > > Some of them are delusional; some of them are just different than me. Likewise, some aspects of Christianity make the world better, and some worse. I will grant that helping poor people, or whatever is a good thing. And to the extent that Christianity drives people to such help, it’s doing a service to the country. However, Christianity as a mass, does little to actually make the country a better place. As I said, Christians are in general, I’m sure, fine people. But the fact that many of them can be counted on voting for specific candidates based on the nonsense they believe is what makes them damaging. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/23 "2011-08-31T00:05:53Z")
> [@strugglingChristian](#): > > @Marley thanks, that explains it. but I don’t talk to people who disagree with me on the existence of an unreal thing, I talk to people of different beliefs about real things, like real topics (war, abortion, etc.) but I cant imagine having a serious convo with say Warren Jeffs regarding theological issues. But people who believe in religion believe they are talking about a real thing. I’m fascinated about why people think it is a real thing. The evidence of nature and history argue strongly against any God who interferes in human affairs being correct, and once you’ve hung around for a while you’ll see that many Dopers who profess a belief in God believe in a deistic god who does not interfere. I suspect that you and your spouse have had people from your respective religions tell you that your partner is going to hell or worse. My wife and I are also of nominally different faiths, and we got married in a nonreligious ceremony in the Ethical Culture Society, and have brought up our kids without religion. It has eliminated a lot of hassle. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/24 "2011-08-31T01:09:07Z")
> [@strugglingChristian](#): > > But may I make an observation for those who feel besieged by christians, I have tea party evangelical friends who feel besieged by unbelievers (atheists or muslims). And I don’t get it. Right wing/Christian persecution syndrome. No matter how much power they have, not matter how much control of society they have the slightest breath of disagreement is “persecution” to them" If the law forbids them from beating gays to death because God tells them to, that’s religious persecution and proof that Christianity is being oppressed by the government. > [@strugglingChristian](#): > > I’m sorry, I don’t believe either of you that the other is trying to take over and control you. Am I the naive one? Yes; that’s what Christianity does. That’s what it has done for 2000 years, whenever it could. It converts, controls, or destroys everyone and everything it can. It’s a religion, a contagious psychological disease; it’s “purpose” is to infest all the human minds it can, and destroy all rival religious diseases. To turn humanity into nothing but a host for it. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/25 "2011-08-31T01:19:04Z")
The militant atheists on this board–and perhaps in the world at large–are largely agenda whores that like to put themselves over as being somehow superior to poor, dumb believers. I suspect this may be due to underlying fears of inadequacy and other image problems. There is no point is going on the warpath every time a Christian name drops Jesus. Nothing to be gained, other than a bit of attention, which the Militant Atheist Brigade seems unable to resist. They scream about alleged right wing intolerance, yet they are the most intolerant and unpleasant people–at least in terms of on board persona–imaginable. I’m an atheist too…but I’m not religious about it. Really wish they’d tone down the hostility towards believers. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/26 "2011-08-31T01:32:18Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Really wish they’d tone down the hostility towards believers. I wish you’d tone down the hostility towards non-believers. 😃 Most atheists never bring it up. But if you’re gonna advocate (not you, but a hypothetical Christian) something bigoted or destructive on the basis of your religion, then you’ve gone over a line and need push back. Like if someone wants to deny other people marriage because it doesn’t line up with their religion, that’s pretty close to evil. It’s the evils that need fighting, not Christmas or Easter Eggs or belief that brings them comfort. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/27 "2011-08-31T01:40:46Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > The militant atheists on this board–and perhaps in the world at large–are largely agenda whores that like to put themselves over as being somehow superior to poor, dumb believers. I suspect this may be due to underlying fears of inadequacy and other image problems. > > There is no point is going on the warpath every time a Christian name drops Jesus. Nothing to be gained, other than a bit of attention, which the Militant Atheist Brigade seems unable to resist. They scream about alleged right wing intolerance, yet they are the most intolerant and unpleasant people–at least in terms of on board persona–imaginable. I’m an atheist too…but I’m not religious about it. Really wish they’d tone down the hostility towards believers. Here comes the crusading champion of tolerance again defending Christians against a completely imaginary atheist hate army. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/28 "2011-08-31T01:43:54Z")
How many times have you seen Christian advocacy on this board? Generally these threads start with one of the usual suspects wanting to get in yet another round of God-bashing. They then descend into a self-congratulatory orgy of “gee, us liberal atheists are so superior to all those conservative bible thumpers, aren’t we great?” drivel that prattles on for a half dozen pages, with a few believers getting shouted down any time they attempt to participate in any meaningful way. The topic has been done to death. Stick a fork in it, it’s done. Leave it alone, and let us never speak of this again. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/29 "2011-08-31T01:46:04Z")
My answer to the OP is that I don’t pick unprovoked fights with Christians, and am not bothered by their beliefs _per se_, but when they make claims that are factually wrong, I will correct them. I will also say something when they want to inflict their beliefs on me, or codify their superstitions into law. I also enjoy debate purely as an intellectual exercise. What’s wrong with that? No one has to engage in the debate if they don’t want to. By the way, Allah and the Christian God are the same thing. Allah means “God.” It’s not something different. If you believe in God, you believe in Allah. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/30 "2011-08-31T01:49:58Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > How many times have you seen Christian advocacy on this board? Frequently. For every debate, there has to be two sides. > [@](#): > > Generally these threads start with one of the usual suspects wanting to get in yet another round of God-bashing. They then descend into a self-congratulatory orgy of “gee, us liberal atheists are so superior to all those conservative bible thumpers, aren’t we great?” drivel that prattles on for a half dozen pages, with a few believers getting shouted down any time they attempt to participate in any meaningful way. > > The topic has been done to death. Stick a fork in it, it’s done. Leave it alone, and let us never speak of this again. You’re pretty much imagining things. I get the feeling you never even read those threads. You just decide you know what they are. ---
**Author:** ![strugglingChristian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@strugglingChristian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/strugglingChristian)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/31 "2011-08-31T01:54:13Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > By the way, Allah and the Christian God are the same thing. Allah means “God.” It’s not something different. If you believe in God, you believe in Allah. I can understand how to you they are the same thing, imaginary, but I’ve heard very good arguments to the opposite from christians and muslims. I haven’t made my mind up yet as I lost my Koran and can’t fact check for myself but Allah supposedly approves of lying and deceit whereas my personal God does not so in my mind they are different. And from the muslim perspective I do not worship Allah but a bastardized polytheistic version. I am not questioning debating the different beliefs on specific topics such as gay marriage, abortion etc. these are real things. I am puzzled on the discussions on God’s person from an atheist perspective. And some people have given very concrete answers. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/32 "2011-08-31T01:56:36Z")
I certainly mostly don’t bother, especially not in real life. In general, I don’t feel the need to persuade others to think the way I do about such issues. Debating on an internet message board is slightly different; I might wade in if there’s a related topic that interests me. But pure “is Christianity nonsense or not” kinds of debates: those I have no interest in at all. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/33 "2011-08-31T01:57:10Z")
> [@strugglingChristian](#): > > @Marley thanks, that explains it. but I don’t talk to people who disagree with me on the existence of an unreal thing, I talk to people of different beliefs about real things, like real topics (war, abortion, etc.) but I cant imagine having a serious convo with say Warren Jeffs regarding theological issues. I’ve been an atheist for about 15 years and I have much less appetite for this kind of discussion than I used to. Once in a while I find something worth arguing about, but in general I don’t see much point in debating whether or not gods exist, for example. I’d rather focus on common ground. As you said, discussing real world issues can be more interesting and more productive. ---
**Author:** ![Surbey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@Surbey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surbey)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/34 "2011-08-31T02:01:04Z")
Although I do not know the “science” behind this graph, I still believe the concept is sound enough. [http://nynerd.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/dark-ages.jpg](http://nynerd.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/dark-ages.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/35 "2011-08-31T02:02:17Z")
> [@strugglingChristian](#): > > I can understand how to you they are the same thing, imaginary, but I’ve heard very good arguments to the opposite from christians and muslims. I haven’t made my mind up yet as I lost my Koran and can’t fact check for myself but Allah supposedly approves of lying and deceit whereas my personal God does not so in my mind they are different. And from the muslim perspective I do not worship Allah but a bastardized polytheistic version. > > I am not questioning debating the different beliefs on specific topics such as gay marriage, abortion etc. these are real things. I am puzzled on the discussions on God’s person from an atheist perspective. And some people have given very concrete answers. I’m not speaking from my own perspective, I’m telling the Islamic one. The Koran explicitly identifies Allah as the Abrahamic God of Jews and Christians. They recognize Jesus as a prophet. It’s the same God. No difference. Arab Christians call God “Allah.” The Koran does not say that God “approves of lying and deceit,” by the way. It says only that Muslims may deny being Muslim if their lives are at stake, or tell lies to save lives (they can tell the Nazis there’s nobody in the attic, for instance). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/36 "2011-08-31T02:04:04Z")
My own interest tends more to debating actual historical claims made by the Bible than pure EOG debates, but if somebody wants some, I’ll give them some. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/37 "2011-08-31T02:09:33Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Because Christians are attempting to legislate their beliefs into law. They are trying to ban abortion, institute religion in schools and forbid the teaching of sexual education. > > A \*Christian \*is a harmless delusional person who isn’t hurting anyone. \*Christians \*are a force that makes society a worse place to live. That’s a pretty broad brush, don’t you think? _Some_ Christians are trying to ban those things. Some _other_ Christians have attempted, with varying degrees of success, to legislate other things into law, of which you would no doubt approve. The Pax Christi types. The social justice types. Way back when, the abolitionists. You can’t attribute the beliefs of those Christians who would institute religion in schools, for example, to those more numerous (but quieter) Christians who would do no such thing, any more than I can attribute the beliefs of those atheists who would remake society by exterminating the oppressor classes to _al_l atheists. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/38 "2011-08-31T02:10:18Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Frequently. For every debate, there has to be two sides. And which side is it that starts the threads? I don’t think you’ll find many “Gay Marriage makes the Baby Jeebus cry” OPs here. You’ll find a lot more “Christians suck” OPs. > [@](#): > > You’re pretty much imagining things. I get the feeling you never even read those threads. You just decide you know what they are. I’ve participated in enough of them to know how they go. Hell, I’ve butted heads with you and **Der Trihs** many times in these types of threads. To the point that I know what you’re going to say and how you’re going to say it. ---
**Author:** ![strugglingChristian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@strugglingChristian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/strugglingChristian)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/39 "2011-08-31T02:13:55Z")
Believe me I understand what you are saying because just 2 weeks ago i believed the same that Allah was just another word for God like Dieu or Dios. but my tp friends convinced me otherwise, well they brought up points which I am considering. And the lying thing, someone did point out to me the actual surah and though i did not memorize it, i seem to recall that it was in effect you can lie to unbelievers. it had nothing about qualifiers but maybe i’m misremembering? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/40 "2011-08-31T02:14:17Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > And which side is it that starts the threads? I’ve never counted, but it seems to me that the debates usually stem from generally objective questions, not from strident challenges. > [@](#): > > I’ve participated in enough of them to know how they go. Hell, I’ve butted heads with you and **Der Trihs** many times in these types of threads. To the point that I know what you’re going to say and how you’re going to say it. Not with me you haven’t. Not in religion threads. Don’t conflate me with DT. He’s a lot more aggressive than I am. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681.md?page=3)