# Atheists, why debate christians? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 30, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681 "2011-08-30T21:49:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/101 "2011-08-31T04:52:02Z")
I will never not believe the sky is florb. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/102 "2011-08-31T04:53:12Z")
> [@strugglingChristian](#): > > what’s happening here is my question is not being answered and you guys are derailing the conversation to suit yourselves. Theists and atheists alike. No, the problem is that you are not listening(or accepting) the answers being given. If someone gives a religious answer to a question that requires a factual answer, or recites as historical fact a religious story for which there is no evidence, or claims that those who are not of a certain religious persuasion cannot be as moral as those that are, or makes claim that those who do not worship as they do are actually worshiping Satan(or secretly hate God, or both), then it is not to the overall benefit to those of us who do not play “The Religionist Game” to stay silent and let ignorance stay unchallenged. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/103 "2011-08-31T04:57:13Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And again; all the facts, all logic are on my side. What facts? The universe exists. It may or may not have been caused to exist by a supernatural entity beyond the understanding of man. We don’t know either way. You and I draw similar conclusions from what we have observed. Believers draw different conclusions. We are not smarter or better informed than they are on a question for which there is no definitive answer. We differ in that you insist that you are right, and that all others are wrong. I acknowledge that I may be wrong about the whole God thing. You could also be wrong, you just refuse to admit it. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/104 "2011-08-31T04:58:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No, the problem is that you are not listening(or accepting) the answers being given. If someone gives a religious answer to a question that requires a factual answer, or recites as historical fact a religious story for which there is no evidence, or claims that those who are not of a certain religious persuasion cannot be as moral as those that are, or makes claim that those who do not worship as they do are actually worshiping Satan(or secretly hate God, or both), then it is not to the overall benefit to those of us who do not play “The Religionist Game” to stay silent and let ignorance stay unchallenged. Could you cite any post in this thread that makes those claims? I didn’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/105 "2011-08-31T05:01:31Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > We differ in that you insist that you are right, and that all others are wrong. I acknowledge that I may be wrong about the whole God thing. You could also be wrong, you just refuse to admit it. Why is it that when it’s about religion, the concept of probability goes right out the window? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/106 "2011-08-31T05:07:46Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What makes conventional god beliefs any more plausible or less silly than Daffy Duck beliefs, though? Nothing really. But it \*is \*Jesus season. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/107 "2011-08-31T05:11:28Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I will never not believe the sky is florb. Death to the Anti-Florbonitian Heresy! ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/108 "2011-08-31T05:12:13Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Why is it that when it’s about religion, the concept of probability goes right out the window? Because probability is irrelevant to the discussion. Most of the greatest minds throughout history have been theists of one flavor or another. You really think you’re smarter than Da Vinci? Wiser than Lincoln? You’re an infallible genius despite being part of a small minority of thought on the subject? I think not. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/109 "2011-08-31T05:14:06Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > What facts? The entirety of science, which shows no evidence of gods. Or any room for one. Of course you can wave your hands and say that physical laws don’t apply to gods, but that just underlines how in order to claim God exists you immediately have to start denying reality. And of course there’s history; as said, we know from history where belief in God came from and how it’s evolved through time. There’s no evidence that it’s based on reality any more than belief in Zeus is. > [@Oakminster](#): > > The universe exists. It may or may not have been caused to exist by a supernatural entity beyond the understanding of man. We don’t know either way. Oh, please. It may or may not have been caused by a twelve dimensional magic pumpkin, by that “logic”. There’s no evidence that “supernatural forces” can exist, none that they do exist, and none that they are responsible for anything at all. > [@Oakminster](#): > > You and I draw similar conclusions from what we have observed. Believers draw different conclusions. We are not smarter or better informed than they are on a question for which there is no definitive answer. Nonsense; believers are fools. Just as has been pointed out they’d be fools for believing in Santa Claus. You are just insisting that they be given a pass and not be called fools like we would for anything else equally stupid, because you think religion should be given a special untouchable status beyond criticism. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/110 "2011-08-31T05:17:03Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Because probability is irrelevant to the discussion. Most of the greatest minds throughout history have been theists of one flavor or another. You really think you’re smarter than Da Vinci? Wiser than Lincoln? You’re an infallible genius despite being part of a small minority of thought on the subject? > > I think not. I’m not smarter than them. I don’t _need_ to be smarter than them. Religion is blatantly, obviously stupid; it doesn’t take a genius or even a moderately bright person to see how ridiculous it is. You’ve have to be mentally disabled to be too stupid to see through it due to intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/111 "2011-08-31T05:19:29Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Because probability is irrelevant to the discussion. Most of the greatest minds throughout history have been theists of one flavor or another. You really think you’re smarter than Da Vinci? Wiser than Lincoln? Better informed than Obama? You’re an infallible genius despite being part of a small minority of thought on the subject? Belief isn’t only about intelligence. Intelligence makes you less likely to believe, but it isn’t the only factor. There is no evidence for any religion. Your laughable claim about the bible is simply pathetic flailing trying to find something, anything to point to. Remember, very, very few people are simply generic theists. No one says, maybe some God of some kind. They say specific Gods. The Abrahamic God, in all his stupidity, the Hawaiian Gods with their magic nets, the Norse Gods (who by the way, have no intention of letting you in Valhalla) or any of countless others are specific claims that people have or had made. None has any likelihood greater than any other. Yet, people slam down a claim and stick to it. Religious people make at least one irrational choice. It doesn’t mean they’re stupid. It means that otherwise sharp people can be weak sometimes. No shit. Look around you. > [@](#): > > I think not. I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/112 "2011-08-31T05:24:37Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I’m not smarter than them. I don’t _need_ to be smarter than them. Religion is blatantly, obviously stupid; it doesn’t take a genius or even a moderately bright person to see how ridiculous it is. You’ve have to be mentally disabled to be too stupid to see through it due to intelligence. So then you are an infallible genius, despite claiming otherwise. Der Trihs has all the answers to the ultimate questions, and the millions of people who have believed in various gods throughout history are all stupid. All hail Der Trihs, for truly he is the wisest among us. Or maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/113 "2011-08-31T05:26:17Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Could you cite any post in this thread that makes those claims? > > I didn’t think so. Can _you_ cite where I said that it was happening in this thread? I won’t answer for you, because that would be rude. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/114 "2011-08-31T05:29:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Can _you_ cite where I said that it was happening in this thread? I won’t answer for you, because that would be rude. So then your comment was largely irrelevant to this thread? Then why did you post it? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/115 "2011-08-31T05:33:17Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > So then your comment was largely irrelevant to this thread? My comment was a direct answer to the OP. > [@Oakminster](#): > > Then why did you post it? For the benefit of those with intelligence enough to understand it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/116 "2011-08-31T05:34:15Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > So then you are an infallible genius, despite claiming otherwise. Der Trihs has all the answers to the ultimate questions, and the millions of people who have believed in various gods throughout history are all stupid. All hail Der Trihs, for truly he is the wisest among us. > > Or maybe not. Definitely not. In fact, I said the exact opposite as I’m sure you are well aware. You don’t need to be especially clever or wise to not buy religion; religion again is blatantly stupid and irrational. It doesn’t take a genius to see through religion, or even someone of merely average intelligence. It just takes someone who is willing do so. And it’s rather silly (if common) to claim that disbelieving that something exists because there’s no evidence for it and it violates physical law is an arrogant claim of intellectual superiority. It’s - obviously - the believers who make claims that they know something exists without evidence and claiming special enlightenment who are the arrogant ones. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/117 "2011-08-31T05:34:55Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > So then you are an infallible genius, despite claiming otherwise. Der Trihs has all the answers to the ultimate questions, and the millions of people who have believed in various gods throughout history are all stupid. All hail Der Trihs, for truly he is the wisest among us. > > Or maybe not. He’s far from the wisest among us. But on this point, he’s right. There is no clearly substantive reason to believe in anything supernatural as far as human senses and reason can determine. Anything else lives in the realm of fantasy. Millions of people doing a stupid thing doesn’t change it from being a stupid thing. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/118 "2011-08-31T05:40:19Z")
> [@Surbey](#): > > Although I do not know the “science” behind this graph, I still believe the concept is sound enough. > > [http://nynerd.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/dark-ages.jpg](http://nynerd.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/dark-ages.jpg) How awful. I know this is snark and I’m usually all about that, but this does damage to your case and credibility. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/119 "2011-08-31T05:44:53Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > You can’t attribute the beliefs of those Christians who would institute religion in schools, for example, to those more numerous (but quieter) Christians who would do no such thing, any more than I can attribute the beliefs of those atheists who would remake society by exterminating the oppressor classes to _al_l atheists. Atheism has no motive, it is not a belief system. Atheism is a religion like NOT collecting stamps is a hobby. You can’t attribute any action to it. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681/120 "2011-08-31T05:51:38Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > …and the millions of people who have believed in various gods throughout history are all stupid… This “millions of people” argument always really bugs me. Millions of people shoot heroin, too. Does that make it less stupid? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-why-debate-christians/594681.md?page=7)